Decisive moment

mshchem · Feb 7, 2020

Almost 20 years ago I grabbed a shot of my now former cat, Zeus, yawning. I spent hours pulling a 11 X14 print from a flat negative. I shot it with a M6 50mm . Zeus's tongue in a mysterious S curve, amazing. I have had so many people comment on that shot.
I have a D5, it blazes away, the only way the noise doesn't ruin the shot is to shoot with a long tele (400mm is what I use) damn DSLRS are like a machine gun going off.

Mainecoonmaniac · Feb 7, 2020

I've admired Adam Schaller's work on Flickr for a while.

nmp · Feb 8, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Has anyone, including Clive who introduced the pertinent post, explained how HCB was able to have 32 shots of the same man jumping the same puddle unless he got the same man to do it 32 times?

I suppose that if the man was passing that puddle 32 times in a matter of hours then unprompted he might have had to jump it 32 times so HCB just had to stay there long enough to take 32 shots and there was no collusion between HCB and the man. Having just given a possible explanation of how this came about without any "construction" I can't help but feel this is somehow stretching reality

So, someone please remove the uncertainty about how the 32 shots were taken.

pentaxuser

Where might I ask did you learn about 32 shots....I have not come across this story anywhere.

nmp · Feb 8, 2020

vedostuu said:
Your friend might remember incorectly:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/be/95/c9/be95c9b17b26cf1b486972e8b8246bb3.jpg

.. and did HCB crop the hell out of the negative? Yes. And who cares, really..

The story is that he as behind a plank fence with openings not big enough for his lens so he let the left side be obscured. Apparently he cropped only this and an another image in his life - being dead-set against the practice.

https://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2009/07/26/derriere-la-gare-saint-lazare/

nmp · Feb 8, 2020

Witold said:
Video itself is interesting, but anybody noticed how Pete puts words in HCB's mouth? I wish I spoke French and similar interview was shown, so HCB could try to do better. And what is the purpose of posting this video? It is well known that HCB was very critical of his own work and did not allow most frames to be shown because ... they were NOT the ones he seems to be saying they all were.

If one wants to take this interview as an indicator of success shooting rate of HCB, then perhaps another view of same video might help alter that impression. No doubt HCB was an artist and had an eye he used to create images. It helped him create what he left to the rest of us. He was also not dumb, knew what self promotion means, and that is basically what I get from it. Again, clear language barrier does help evaluating it, nor did I expect him telling Pete how many bad frames he shot.

Apparently at one point in his life he cut out all the good negatives from his collection and threw away all the rest because he wanted to store them in a single shoe box. He later regretted that as he didn't leave any extra film on the sides which made it very difficult to print. He also destroyed all his paintings before he took up photography seriously.

I don't recall reading anywhere that decisive moment meant taking a single shot. What he did was situate himself in position for a composition he liked, raised his camera and waited for something to happen that added a "moment" component to his composition. He didn't go crazy with shooting (like I would have armed with a DSLR) but did take a few to get that iconic one that we might see.

Great video in his own words (check around 7:00 min where he talks about "decisive moment" and number of shots):

Deleted member 88956 · Feb 8, 2020

nmp said:
Apparently at one point in his life he cut out all the good negatives from his collection and threw away all the rest because he wanted to store them in a single shoe box. He later regretted that as he didn't leave any extra film on the sides which made it very difficult to print. He also destroyed all his paintings before he took up photography seriously.

I don't recall reading anywhere that decisive moment meant taking a single shot. What he did was situate himself in position for a composition he liked, raised his camera and waited for something to happen that added a "moment" component to his composition. He didn't go crazy with shooting (like I would have armed with a DSLR) but did take a few to get that iconic one that we might see.

Great video in his own words (check around 7:00 min where he talks about "decisive moment" and number of shots):

I need to look something up and I do not think it was in MoMA book. The story is quite different on his negatives, he had thousands that he did not allow to be published, and he was so critical and controlling, not so many of all taken have been shown to public. This can be spun in different ways, but street photography is like no other genres.

Ko.Fe. · Feb 8, 2020

Witold said:
Video itself is interesting, but anybody noticed how Pete puts words in HCB's mouth? I wish I spoke French and similar interview was shown, so HCB could try to do better. And what is the purpose of posting this video? It is well known that HCB was very critical of his own work and did not allow most frames to be shown because ... they were NOT the ones he seems to be saying they all were.

If one wants to take this interview as an indicator of success shooting rate of HCB, then perhaps another view of same video might help alter that impression. No doubt HCB was an artist and had an eye he used to create images. It helped him create what he left to the rest of us. He was also not dumb, knew what self promotion means, and that is basically what I get from it. Again, clear language barrier does help evaluating it, nor did I expect him telling Pete how many bad frames he shot.

He would give same load of impressionism in French
I have read translated from French as well.

Mainecoonmaniac · Feb 11, 2020

radiant · Feb 12, 2020

I think we confuse two different things when thinking of decisive moment:

What I believe it is not: some precious moment, taken by ninja photography skills and by only by skills, not by luck in any ways.

What I think it means: a moment that only happened once, never happened before and will never happen again. (quote from Constantine Manos, altough he calls it "magic moment") - No matter if it was a pure luck, no matter was it cropped (Fan Ho too says "he likes to crop").

Deleted member 88956 · Feb 12, 2020

vedostuu said:
I think we confuse two different things when thinking of decisive moment:

What I believe it is not: some precious moment, taken by ninja photography skills and by only by skills, not by luck in any ways.

What I think it means: a moment that only happened once, never happened before and will never happen again. (quote from Constantine Manos, altough he calls it "magic moment") - No matter if it was a pure luck, no matter was it cropped (Fan Ho too says "he likes to crop").

Good think you brought up Fan Ho. He shows great compositions each and every time. Can't call any perfect because at that point it is beyond a subjective opinion, but his photographs are striking. Many, one would think, could have been framed and composed in camera without need for later cropping, yet some aspect ratios clearly show he did crop even if he never admitted it. But end result strikes the viewer and leaves long lasting impression, which is what matters most.

Telling the world "I compose in camera and never crop" is more of a show off than a true master.

radiant · Feb 12, 2020

Witold said:
yet some aspect ratios clearly show he did crop even if he never admitted i

It is not about admitting, it is just that not everything needs to be described. I prefer artists who don't explain things. Erwitt said something like that the purpose of photograph is just that you don't need to explain by words.

In the interview video few posts back Fan Ho talks about one picture which he cropped to totally different subject from the frame than he was shooting the frame.

nmp · Feb 12, 2020

Very good video on Fan Ho...thanks for sharing, maine. In a way the decisive moment for him seems to be more about the light and shadow although human element is also a part of it. Visually to me his photographs are more striking because of the contrast and its relation to the geometry in comparison to HCB's photographs. I am a fan of both.

I liked what Fan Ho said at the end of the video:

Truly good photographs are not taken with the camera.
They come from inside you.
Your eyes. Your brain. Your heart.
Not some cold piece of equipment.

Ought to remember that next time film vs digital flares up.

Deleted member 88956 · Feb 12, 2020

vedostuu said:
It is not about admitting, it is just that not everything needs to be described. I prefer artists who don't explain things. Erwitt said something like that the purpose of photograph is just that you don't need to explain by words.

In the interview video few posts back Fan Ho talks about one picture which he cropped to totally different subject from the frame than he was shooting the frame.

Yes, but when aspiring photographers meet the accomplished, they ask because that is part of their learning process. And the new usually appreciate the elders when they choose to share. I didn't mean one needs to amplify his process all over the place, but when they speak about their technique it frequently is an eye opener to the up and coming.

NB23 · Feb 12, 2020

Hello there.

Decisive what?

Vaughn · Feb 12, 2020

Witold said:
...Telling the world "I compose in camera and never crop" is more of a show off than a true master.

Sometimes it is just a fact. And sometimes people brag about their cropping (or lack of cropping).

Sirius Glass · Feb 12, 2020

Cropping or lack there of has nothing to do with the decisive moment. The moment is captured in the film or in the image area or it is not. Cropping will not in itself make a moment magic.

Mainecoonmaniac · Feb 12, 2020

What really shows how a photographer shoots is to look at the contact sheets or unedited digital photos. It reveals what the photographer is thinking and feeling during moment(s) when a photo is taken. This comment relates to the OP commenting on using video to capture the right moment. If someone shoots 30 frames per second, the frame rate of videos and picks the "right" one, each frame shot on the video doesn't reveal what the photographer's intention is. IMHO, photographers that shoots a lot, especially in the age of digital cameras are insecure. Competent and confident photographs I would think they would use their gut feelings to snap the shutter.

Vaughn · Feb 12, 2020

If my success rate per sheet of film shot is very high, that does not show a mastery...it show a lack of exploration and risk-taking. But a few exposures or hundreds of exposures, I believe the main goal is to improve...however one can.

scheimfluger_77 · Feb 13, 2020

I was not acquainted with this master. His images have a marvelous uncluttered quality that most street photography lacks.

Deleted member 88956 · Mar 8, 2020

Here is for a "decisive moment"

Deleted member 88956 · Mar 8, 2020

This was just a drawing view

CMoore · Mar 8, 2020

Witold said:
Here is for a "decisive moment"

Oh Wow...... imagine if the ships had cooperated as well.!

cliveh · Mar 8, 2020

I did not say it was 32 shots of the same man.

pentaxuser · Mar 8, 2020

cliveh said:
I did not say it was 32 shots of the same man.

Just a pity that you did not clear this up about 6 weeks ago when you first mentioned 32 shots of the puddle jumper and not a puddle jumper which led me to think that it was the same person

So I take it that you are suggesting it was 32 different people each of whom jumped the puddle and he chose as his decisive moment the man we know as the puddle jumper. Have you seen the contact prints and can you now state that there were 32 shots of different puddle jumpers in the course of the few hours that this scene existed or is this pure speculation on your part.

Thanks

pentaxuser

Maris · Mar 8, 2020

An amusing anecdote relates the time Pierre Gassmann brought Henri Cartier-Bresson a big pile of contact sheets that had been slaved over in the early hours of the morning. H.C-B was leafing through the sheets when he sensed Gassmann standing behind him. H.C-B spun around and hissed venomously "Get out of here!" Even though Gassmann had seen every frame on every sheet H.C-B could not stand the though that Gassmann would discover that he, H.C-B, really did not have much of a clue what was there. But if a nice image could be found it would be marked with wax-pencil and sent down to the lab to be worked up into an enlargement. Voila, another decisive moment for history.

Decisive moment

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