Decisive moment

Aside from compression artifacts that may be created by a video camera as well as the usually lower resolution used for video, the end-viewer would likely never know how the image was created. IF the same care was taken when shooting the video and appropriate equipment was used, the image could have the same effect.

Keep in mind that HD video is essentially 2 megapixels and 4K UHD is 8 megapixels. Lower resolution than you would get with a decent film or digital still camera.

I went from 100% digital to 90%+ film because I got tired of sorting through dozens of images looking for the ones that worked best. That being said, there are still times I shoot digital on burst mode because it is the right tool for a particular job (such as taking a group photo).

Addendum: What if Abraham Zapruder had been carrying a Leica and waiting for the the definitive moment instead of shooting 8mm movie film?

Maris said:

Puddle jumper? Too easy! Remember the scene is outside a railway station, Gare Saint-Lazare, where hundreds or thousands of people need to board or exit trains. And to get across that puddle outside the station someone has helpfully placed a ladder to get people part way across. Then it's just a case of staking out the scene and photographing everyone who has an athletic go at keeping their feet dry. If this particular "decisive moment " can be found on the contact sheets that come back from the lab well and good. If not, say nowt and move on. Panning through those contact sheets in the hope of a golden frame is aesthetically equivalent to picking a video frame after the fact.

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Exactly. Also, HCB shot thousands of frames never seen by the public. While admiration for what has been published is deserved, I wonder what that would be like had it been fully revealed what it took to get each and every one chosen for publication.

There truly is nothing wrong about locating the "Decisive Moment" through the process of editing and curating.
Being able to make the best choice is a skill as well.

HCB's " Decisive Moment" is not about timing, anyway.

Ran out of film yesterday while taking pictures of a coyote because I took insurance shots.

Also I loaded from bulk roll so only have myself to blame for not clicking a few extra frames like I used to do... (I have the Ilford reels that can hold 72 exposures that I could use for 40 exposure rolls if I felt like it....

Vaughn said:

HCB's " Decisive Moment" is not about timing, anyway.

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Then what is it about?

It's the decisive moment, not decisive moments. What makes Cartier-Bresson a great photographer is his instincts. Photography is hard work and requires a lot of skill. One can only hone their skills is through practice. Bresson was also a big game hunter so he had a lot of practice there.

Has anyone, including Clive who introduced the pertinent post, explained how HCB was able to have 32 shots of the same man jumping the same puddle unless he got the same man to do it 32 times?

I suppose that if the man was passing that puddle 32 times in a matter of hours then unprompted he might have had to jump it 32 times so HCB just had to stay there long enough to take 32 shots and there was no collusion between HCB and the man. Having just given a possible explanation of how this came about without any "construction" I can't help but feel this is somehow stretching reality

So, someone please remove the uncertainty about how the 32 shots were taken.

pentaxuser

As Seneca said "Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." Cartier-Bresson prepared himself and the opportunity is right before he snaps the shutter. I would think he would frame the shot with his geometric tendencies and wait for the right moment. Take a look at this.
https://ipoxstudios.com/proof-that-...sed-dynamic-symmetry-in-photography-4k-video/

pentaxuser said:

Has anyone, including Clive who introduced the pertinent post, explained how HCB was able to have 32 shots of the same man jumping the same puddle unless he got the same man to do it 32 times?

I suppose that if the man was passing that puddle 32 times in a matter of hours then unprompted he might have had to jump it 32 times so HCB just had to stay there long enough to take 32 shots and there was no collusion between HCB and the man. Having just given a possible explanation of how this came about without any "construction" I can't help but feel this is somehow stretching reality

So, someone please remove the uncertainty about how the 32 shots were taken.

pentaxuser

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Maybe the 32 times only occurred in Clive's mind, because other than this thread I cannot find any reference to the man jumping 32 times for HCB.

Sirius Glass said:

Maybe the 32 times only occurred in Clive's mind, because other than this thread I cannot find any reference to the man jumping 32 times for HCB.

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It crops up here-and-there. Speculation; not 32 leaps by that man, perhaps, but 32 "men" (or "people") who happened to be in the neighborhood behind the station, equally reluctant to get wet -


" The “decisive moment” is bullshit. There are ten pictures before and ten pictures after every one of them: [Henri Cartier-Bresson] actually took thirty pictures of people leaping over that puddle. " - http://photoquotations.com/a/798/Paul+Graham

One person or 30-some. Is that strictly true or not? Does it matter? In the context of 1932 (and preceding) photography, it is the living spontaneity of the image, the leap in the midst of a fine static composition that was new, different. Cartier-Bresson did elsewhere "curate" among a series of his shots of the same scene. Whether he did or did not in this case is immaterial; it is his final selection that matters, that which demonstrates his eye.

pentaxuser said:

Has anyone, including Clive who introduced the pertinent post, explained how HCB was able to have 32 shots of the same man jumping the same puddle unless he got the same man to do it 32 times?

I suppose that if the man was passing that puddle 32 times in a matter of hours then unprompted he might have had to jump it 32 times so HCB just had to stay there long enough to take 32 shots and there was no collusion between HCB and the man. Having just given a possible explanation of how this came about without any "construction" I can't help but feel this is somehow stretching reality

So, someone please remove the uncertainty about how the 32 shots were taken.

pentaxuser

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As you can see, most simply deny the fact how many never shown frames of HCB actually existed. This fact is in at least one large HCB albums/biographies. He picked what was to be published and few seem to swallow this fact and I have no idea why. It only proves the widely spread "understanding" of a "decisive moment" as some sort of gift of hard to find abilities. The fact is, if you want that great shot, most of the time it will take a lot of frames of same or similar subject to find one.

cliveh said:

Then what is it about?

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To me, photography is the simultaneous recognition, in a fraction of a second, of the significance of an event as well as of a precise organization of forms which give that event its proper expression. — Henri Cartier-Bresson

So much more than just timing...

32 shots

Do we speak about this shot?



If yes, just to mention that it was not shoot with Leica, it was medium format, and it was one shot only. I know the guy who did this print originally for HCB.

darkosaric said:

If yes, just to mention that it was not shoot with Leica, it was medium format, and it was one shot only. I know the guy who did this print originally for HCB.

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Your friend might remember incorectly:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/be/95/c9/be95c9b17b26cf1b486972e8b8246bb3.jpg

.. and did HCB crop the hell out of the negative? Yes. And who cares, really..

vedostuu said:

Your friend might remember incorectly:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/be/95/c9/be95c9b17b26cf1b486972e8b8246bb3.jpg

.. and did HCB crop the hell out of the negative? Yes. And who cares, really..

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Pretty much the point of the whole discussion, end result is what matters. But some must live with the impression that all great "decisive" freezes of whatever, was nothing but that, with no manipulation. Lots of hear say too, and (with respect to HCB) all it takes is to pick up just one good book of his work to have better understanding (Moma's: The Modern Century would be one of them).

One of the greatest fashion photographers, Jeanloup Sieff, shot many frames of same set up, then picked just one or two for further consideration, and this was all staged work. So keep in mind the time he had on hand, the imaginative compositions he proofed time and again, and still could not make final decision in camera. And this was not just someone in the field, he certainly shot some of the greatest fashion images in existence. Then think of street, where often fraction of a second making a difference, and how great the shots came out, yet some people keep suggesting HCB had this gift of just shooting the right thing every time, whereas the opposite was true. he did have a gift of sorts, just not 100% proof. It's possible to get one of them, a few maybe, most come from a whole series of tries.

One great, yet unknown, jazz pianist said: I don't play piano, I just run my fingers across the keyboard and sometimes strike the lucky notes. As humble as he was on that, there is some truth to it in many walks of life.

I am not trying to downgrade HCB's work, he deserves the praise without argument, just let's accept the "failure" rate of all shots taken, even though I'd not call them a failure by any stretch of imagination.

Witold said:

I am not trying to downgrade HCB's work, he deserves the praise without argument, just let's accept the "failure" rate of all shots taken, even though I'd not call them a failure by any stretch of imagination.

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It's been said a great photographer is one who doesn't let anybody see his stinkers.

pbromaghin said:

It's been said a great photographer is one who doesn't let anybody see his stinkers.

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Yes. But also the winners need help with cropping out the unattractive bits.

Vaughn said:

HCB's " Decisive Moment" is not about timing, anyway.

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But, again, never trust his words or take them as dogma.
About cropping and taking only one photo:

Ko.Fe. said:

But, again, never trust his words or take them as dogma.
About cropping and taking only one photo:

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Video itself is interesting, but anybody noticed how Pete puts words in HCB's mouth? I wish I spoke French and similar interview was shown, so HCB could try to do better. And what is the purpose of posting this video? It is well known that HCB was very critical of his own work and did not allow most frames to be shown because ... they were NOT the ones he seems to be saying they all were.

If one wants to take this interview as an indicator of success shooting rate of HCB, then perhaps another view of same video might help alter that impression. No doubt HCB was an artist and had an eye he used to create images. It helped him create what he left to the rest of us. He was also not dumb, knew what self promotion means, and that is basically what I get from it. Again, clear language barrier does help evaluating it, nor did I expect him telling Pete how many bad frames he shot.

HCB reflected on something that I have been thinking of (tried to find it again in the video but gave up). All this about 'only one shot' has nothing to do with the decisive moment. Every moment can be a decisive moment. Every time HCB framed an image and clicked the shutter was decisive -- including taking multiple images of a scene as it unfolded. Where did this concept of the Decisive Moment being a singular image taken come from? Seems like in order to take the truely singular decisive moment image would require one to be able to see into the future and know that no more decisive moments were coming.

Vaughn said:

To me, photography is the simultaneous recognition, in a fraction of a second, of the significance of an event as well as of a precise organization of forms which give that event its proper expression. — Henri Cartier-Bresson

So much more than just timing...

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Yes, he also had a reasonably good photo lab.

Vaughn said:

HCB reflected on something that I have been thinking of (tried to find it again in the video but gave up). All this about 'only one shot' has nothing to do with the decisive moment. Every moment can be a decisive moment. Every time HCB framed an image and clicked the shutter was decisive -- including taking multiple images of a scene as it unfolded. Where did this concept of the Decisive Moment being a singular image taken come from? Seems like in order to take the truely singular decisive moment image would require one to be able to see into the future and know that no more decisive moments were coming.

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That is a decisively decisive argument.

Yes -- much more focused on his images.

vedostuu said:

Your friend might remember incorectly:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/be/95/c9/be95c9b17b26cf1b486972e8b8246bb3.jpg

.. and did HCB crop the hell out of the negative? Yes. And who cares, really..

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Thanks hadn’t seen that before.

He could have made a dupe neg for production printing. Then our friend can still be right.

Had to get out the big book to find an interesting detail. The poster is for a performance of Russian pianist Alexander Brailowsky who was giving a concert of Chopin at the time.