Decisions....Decisions....

Ces1um · Jan 4, 2018

So I've been lucky enough to work in an office where I have access to a dental X-ray processor, which I've been using to develop all my black and white film. Yesterday I found out that the last remaining dentist will be decommissioning it and going digital. I could buy the processor but the tanks hold a lot of chemistry and have to be full to be operational. It's been fantastic having it available because it automatically develops, fixes, washes and dries my negatives in 4.5-6 minutes. I could buy her share of the processor and take it home but I'm thinking developer and fixer going into my septic field probably isn't a good thing. Also, It's also a lot more expensive to use the volume of chemistry required rather than using a paterson tank. Has anybody tried the mod54 4x5 sheet film processor? Is tray developing easier? I will still have access to a "dark" room, even though it has no darkroom equipment left in it.

nsurit · Jan 4, 2018

Yes, I have both the original and the new Mod54 processors and much prefer that to tray processing. Takes a little getting use to loading, however a great solution to processing 4X5 film.

Neal · Jan 4, 2018

Dear Ces1um,

Find a Jobo CPE(the specific model doesn't matter and you don't need a lift), a 2523 tank and a 2509n (I think) reel. You can develop 6 sheets of 4x5 film in 270ml of chemicals. I wash with 6 exchanges of water, the second using HCA.

Not as nice as the situation you have, but a lot easier to manage the chemical volume. BTW, I also live on a well and septic but only wash water goes down the drain. Everything else is collected and brought to a waste disposal site about once a year.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

Ces1um · Jan 4, 2018

Neal said:
Dear Ces1um,

Find a Jobo CPE(the specific model doesn't matter and you don't need a lift), a 2523 tank and a 2509n (I think) reel. You can develop 6 sheets of 4x5 film in 270ml of chemicals. I wash with 6 exchanges of water, the second using HCA.

Not as nice as the situation you have, but a lot easier to manage the chemical volume. BTW, I also live on a well and septic but only wash water goes down the drain. Everything else is collected and brought to a waste disposal site about once a year.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

The situation I currently have is ideal. The waste silver is captured and technically recyclable. I'll check out the job cpe as you suggest.

faberryman · Jan 4, 2018

You might also consider the SP-445 tank. It will hold four 4x5 sheets and uses less chemistry than the Patterson tanks.

jeffreyg · Jan 4, 2018

Ces1um,

Actually I am a dentist and our home and my darkroom are on a septic tank. I have been using Kinderman ss tanks for over forty years and have had no problems. If you are concerned about the chemistry or your local laws prohibit their use with a septic tank you can save them in a suitable container and use a commercial waste processing company. Developing film at home will give you the option of different developers and a more thorough washing sequence as well as using a fix clearing solution and as you mentioned less chemistry. If you are using roll film such as 35mm you could develop two rolls in a 500ml tank, 120 film two rolls in a 1000ml tank and if you go to 4x5 you would probably not want to use the automatic processor.

Small infrequent volumes of the chemistry have not been a problem for my septic tank. Even the larger volumes used when printing have not caused any issues. It may not be a good environmental practice but I am not in the darkroom on a daily or weekly basis and the grass and trees in the yard near the drain field are thriving.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Ces1um · Jan 4, 2018

jeffreyg said:
Ces1um,

Actually I am a dentist and our home and my darkroom are on a septic tank. I have been using Kinderman ss tanks for over forty years and have had no problems. If you are concerned about the chemistry or your local laws prohibit their use with a septic tank you can save them in a suitable container and use a commercial waste processing company. Developing film at home will give you the option of different developers and a more thorough washing sequence as well as using a fix clearing solution and as you mentioned less chemistry. If you are using roll film such as 35mm you could develop two rolls in a 500ml tank, 120 film two rolls in a 1000ml tank and if you go to 4x5 you would probably not want to use the automatic processor.

Small infrequent volumes of the chemistry have not been a problem for my septic tank. Even the larger volumes used when printing have not caused any issues. It may not be a good environmental practice but I am not in the darkroom on a daily or weekly basis and the grass and trees in the yard near the drain field are thriving.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Thanks for advice! I was more concerned with the chemicals damaging the plastics in the septic field themselves, but if you've got 40 years usage out of your septic field then it sounds like it should be safe. As you know, a septic field costs about 30 grand cdn to replace so I was just being overly cautious as there are so many things you can't put down a septic tank. I have a few decisions ahead of me to make. I hate losing the dentx 810 basic to develop my film (I develop 110, 120, 135 and 4x5 in it using the traditional xray developer and fixer. So far the only issues I've run into is with tri-x in 120 format. It comes out very slimy and needs a lot more rinsing. Ilford, lomography and "holga" brands have all developed well as long as I develop before processor warms the solutions. If I process them mid day everything has far too much contrast.

BAC1967 · Jan 4, 2018

As far as septic systems go you should be more concerned about killing the microbes that break down the solids in your septic tank. Silver is an antimicrobial, and doesn't just go away or break down, it's probably building up in the system. I'm sure the other chemistry is also harmful to the microbes. If your septic system microbes are not breaking down the solids it will eventually clog up and cause problems.

MattKing · Jan 4, 2018

How many rolls of film (8"x10" equivalent) are you expecting to process per week?
Outside of the silver in used fixer, the chemicals used in most types of black and white processing are pretty benign - particularly once diluted. The ascorbic acid based developers (XTol) and acetic acid based stop bath (table vinegar) are particularly benign.
In fact, your septic system is more likely to be adversely affected by high volumes of wash water than the chemicals you are discarding.
Even small amounts of used fixer would probably be fine, because a fair amount of anti-bacterial material can be tolerated by a well functioning septic system.

Ces1um · Jan 4, 2018

MattKing said:
How many rolls of film (8"x10" equivalent) are you expecting to process per week?
Outside of the silver in used fixer, the chemicals used in most types of black and white processing are pretty benign - particularly once diluted. The ascorbic acid based developers (XTol) and acetic acid based stop bath (table vinegar) are particularly benign.
In fact, your septic system is more likely to be adversely affected by high volumes of wash water than the chemicals you are discarding.
Even small amounts of used fixer would probably be fine, because a fair amount of anti-bacterial material can be tolerated by a well functioning septic system.

I'd probably be using my dental x-ray developer and fixer to begin with but eventually branching out to others. Likely only a roll a week.

Sirius Glass · Jan 4, 2018

For less cost, less cost of chemicals and the ability to process slides and C-41 buy a used Jobo processor. As far as chemical disposal see if you have a local hazardous waste disposal. Also @jananian and others are very knowledgeable about removing silver from hypo and chemical disposal.

Ai Print · Jan 4, 2018

Neal said:
BTW, I also live on a well and septic but only wash water goes down the drain. Everything else is collected and brought to a waste disposal site about once a year.

I'm in the same boat and with the anticipation of professional level output, I am not going to marinate my neighbors in chemistry effluent via our ground water. So I have two evac lines on pumps that send the chemistry up out of my basement to holding tanks in the garage. From there I will take the chemistry out to another location on my property to partially evaporate and then finally off to hazardous waste disposal.

As far as wash water, I am using recirculation pumps on each print washer to increase wash times but with less than half the fresh water, rigorous hypo tests will be used to ensure archival quality.

I'd gladly pay $10K-$20K to get on a city sewer line to avoid all this but my house is high up on a alpine mesa in a rural mountain area and we don't have that option up here.

MattKing · Jan 4, 2018

Ces1um said:
I'd probably be using my dental x-ray developer and fixer to begin with but eventually branching out to others. Likely only a roll a week.

A roll a week isn't going to create a problem. Recycle your used fixer, avoid some of the more exotic toners, and be careful with how much wash water you are flushing down the drain - it just takes a trickle (one complete change every 5 minutes) to wash film.
The small quantities of developer and stop bath you dump won't come close to affecting your septic system nearly as much as the anti-bacterial soap you wash your hands with, or all the rest of the household waste that goes down your drains.
If you had volumes akin to what Dan (Ai Print) creates in his commercial darkroom.

Derek m · Jan 14, 2018

This is from Anchell's Darkroom Cookbook. Sorry..didn't feel like typing it all out. Looks like there's nothing to worry about beyond taking precautions.

Ces1um · Jan 14, 2018

Thanks! That's quite informative and definitely solves my problems. That being said, it now looks like my current darkroom at work is safe for another year. The other dentist changed her mind about ditching film for now.

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