Deardorff 8x10 vs Wilderness 8x10

rustyair · Mar 6, 2013

Hi all,

I had a chance to use a 8x10 and I'm so stoked!

I've narrowed it down to two cameras, a used Deardorff 8x10 and Wilderness 8x10.

Which one would be better for field backpacking camera probably near my car?

Deardorff 8x10 is around $1500 decent condition and the wilderness is $2630 new all metal.

Is all metal camera sturdier? Not sure if it's worth a thousand $ more.

http://www.bhcamera.us/wilderness810.php

Advice needed!

Thanks!!

k_jupiter · Mar 7, 2013

Essentially identical in weight. One comes with a built in box, one doesn't. One uses a 4 inch Technika board, one used a 6 inch wooden board. One is new, one has been proven for 70 years. One is about 1500 bucks for a nice kit, one is 2500 bucks for a stripped model with lensboard and case.

Tough call.

And no, the Deardorff is extremely solid.

tim in san jose

Roger Thoms · Mar 7, 2013

From the wilderness specs. "Sinar lensboard with linhof adapter"

Roger

k_jupiter · Mar 7, 2013

Oh, I see. The aluminum top and bottom pieces are the 6x6 holders.

Why not just make a 6x6 lensboard?
Makes no difference. a thousand bucks is still a lotta moola.

Roger Thoms · Mar 7, 2013

Tim, I'm shooting with a Eastman Kodak 2D, so I'm with you on the $1000. As far as the adapter board goes, it could be useful if you had lens you wanted to use on multiple cameras.

Roger

k_jupiter · Mar 7, 2013

Roger Thoms said:
Tim, I'm shooting with a Eastman Kodak 2D, so I'm with you on the $1000. As far as the adapter board goes, it could be useful if you had lens you wanted to use on multiple cameras.

Roger

Have you used a Deardorff before?

Get under the hood of one of these and you'll understand... they put all the controls exactly where they need to be without looking.

Amazing camera.

BTW, I live in the south bay if you ever need to look at one.

tim in san jose

E. von Hoegh · Mar 7, 2013

k_jupiter said:
Have you used a Deardorff before?

Get under the hood of one of these and you'll understand... they put all the controls exactly where they need to be without looking.

Amazing camera.

BTW, I live in the south bay if you ever need to look at one.

tim in san jose

Yes, it's a very intuitive camera designed by and for photographers. For the cost of the Wilderness you can get a V8, a lens, some filmholders, film, a tripod....
and if you get tired of 8x10 you'll be able to sell it on and break even.

Chinese aluminium & plastic crap vs Chicago mahogany craftsmanship... it's a no-brainer.

LJH · Mar 7, 2013

k_jupiter said:
Have you used a Deardorff before?

Get under the hood of one of these and you'll understand... they put all the controls exactly where they need to be without looking.

Unless, of course, you're Ansel Adams.

LJH · Mar 7, 2013

E. von Hoegh said:
Chinese aluminium & plastic crap vs Chicago mahogany craftsmanship... it's a no-brainer.

Speaking of no-brained, nice racist slur there.

If it's "aluminium & plastic crap", why does it matter where it's built? What led you to add where it's made, ignorance, Xenophobia or a pinch from both pots?

k_jupiter · Mar 7, 2013

LJH said:
Unless, of course, you're Ansel Adams.

Who?

k_jupiter · Mar 7, 2013

LJH said:
Speaking of no-brained, nice racist slur there.

If it's "aluminium & plastic crap", why does it matter where it's built? What led you to add where it's made, ignorance, Xenophobia or a pinch from both pots?

I don't see the "racist slur" here.

Mr. van Hoegh stated his opinion of plastic and aluminum cameras and yes, the camera is made in China. Or was the racist slur against people in Chicago?

And you could never accuse me of xenophobia. I work in a group of engineers where I am the only native born American. Couple of Chinese, a couple of Vietnamese, a Russian, and my boss is Pakistani. Great working with them all.

Personally, it doesn't look like a bad camera. Not built like a Deardorff but then again, what is?

tim in san jose

munz6869 · Mar 7, 2013

If it were just 'plastic and aluminium', that's fine, but in using Chinese as an adjective against Chicago in a sentence, then I reckon you are comparing two products or manufacturing techniques/materials/quality standards by 'race', and then yes, that's certainly racist :-( To me, bad quality is universal, but then equally, so is good quality. I own a Japanese Wista, which I love, but I would equally love a Chinese Chamonix, a French Arca-Swiss, or a US Deardorff - having played with them all, they are all beautiful cameras with different charms... Deardorff's are great, but then, read the lengthy thread on the LF forum about the current company and the messy dealings some (not all) customers have had with them. No-one's perfect.

Marc!

rustyair · Mar 7, 2013

Thanks guys for advice and Please no more racist talking here...

k_jupiter · Mar 8, 2013

munz6869 said:
If it were just 'plastic and aluminium', that's fine, but in using Chinese as an adjective against Chicago in a sentence, then I reckon you are comparing two products or manufacturing techniques/materials/quality standards by 'race', and then yes, that's certainly racist :-( To me, bad quality is universal, but then equally, so is good quality. I own a Japanese Wista, which I love, but I would equally love a Chinese Chamonix, a French Arca-Swiss, or a US Deardorff - having played with them all, they are all beautiful cameras with different charms... Deardorff's are great, but then, read the lengthy thread on the LF forum about the current company and the messy dealings some (not all) customers have had with them. No-one's perfect.

Marc!

First off, identifying the location of origin is NOT racist. Get off your PC high horse. He was comparing two products or manufacturing techniques/materials/quality standards by location and perceived manufacturing standards. One happens to have been made in Chicago, one in his opinion, made to inferior standards in China. Oh my gosh, like that would ever happen? Go down to Walmart and see for yourself. I heard nothing about race in that sentence.

And second, no one said anything about buying a NEW Deardorff. Why anyone in the world would buy a new LF camera is beyond me. And no one who owns an old Deardorff would ever expect any service from the new company.

rolls eyes once again.

LJH · Mar 8, 2013

k_jupiter said:
First off, identifying the location of origin is NOT racist. Get off your PC high horse. He was comparing two products or manufacturing techniques/materials/quality standards by location and perceived manufacturing standards. One happens to have been made in Chicago, one in his opinion, made to inferior standards in China. Oh my gosh, like that would ever happen? Go down to Walmart and see for yourself. I heard nothing about race in that sentence.

rolls eyes once again.

Does the sand that you're burying you head in get in your eyes when you roll them?

The original reference to China is an irrelevance. It is a generalisation. It is both presumptuous and inflammatory. It vilifies the Chinese.

For you to tell Marc (and, vicariously, me) to get off our "PC high horse" shows you utter lack of understanding of, or disregard for, the human consequences for such antiquated, ignorant, Nationalistic and Xenophobic hyperbole.

My guess is that this will fall on deaf ears. The easy route is to keep peddling fear and loathing; the more difficult is trying to understand that we're all in this together.

Ari · Mar 9, 2013

I prefer metal cameras.

36cm2 · Mar 9, 2013

Ari said:
I prefer metal cameras.

Can we please avoid the hylophobic statements? Seriously though, can't we all just get along. Whatever your views, a little perspective control goes a long way.

Leo

k_jupiter · Mar 9, 2013

LJH said:
My guess is that this will fall on deaf ears. The easy route is to keep peddling fear and loathing; the more difficult is trying to understand that we're all in this together.

Yep. Deaf ears.

No peddling fear and loathing. An observation, true or not, about Chinese products. Not a freaking racist line in there. As I have said, my workmates are about 75% Asian or eastern European. Great engineers, love most of them. And the ones I don't, it's personal.

But... a lot of crap comes out of China. It does. And if Mr. vH wants to express his opinion about that crap, what right do you have to call him racist? And by me defending him, you call me racist. You are over the line.

tim in san jose

munz6869 · Mar 9, 2013

A lot of crap comes out of every country (who on Earth ARE these people drinking Fosters beer, for example?) - there's absolutely no need to generalise by country/race - you can be specific, and that will only hurt one manufacturer's pride (and hopefully support those who do make good products)! I wouldn't call anyone on this forum a racist, but the language certainly was, and I won't ever back down from that.

Marc!

Alan Gales · Mar 9, 2013

From my understanding China makes some of the best steel in the world. Nikon Digital cameras are made in China. China does make quality products.

China also makes crap including toys painted with lead paint and tools that injure you even if used properly. They have a huge reputation for making crap because that's what they ship to us in the U.S.

The problem is that sometimes the only thing available to buy is the Chinese crap. This is what pisses people like E. and I off.

I'm not prejudiced against the Chinese people. I mostly blame the problem on the U.S. government and the greed of U.S. companies outsourcing for cheap labor and the American consumer's desire for cheap products over quality. Of course I am probably getting political here.

k_jupiter · Mar 10, 2013

Thank you Mr. Gales.

k_jupiter · Mar 10, 2013

LJH said:
The original reference to China is an irrelevance. It is a generalisation. It is both presumptuous and inflammatory. It vilifies the Chinese.

Could you tell me where this particular piece of equipment was made?

That makes it NOT a generalization, but a specific reference to a particular product. Perhaps being from Australia, English isn't your primary language?

tim in san jose

munz6869 · Mar 10, 2013

The original reference

Chinese aluminium & plastic crap vs Chicago mahogany craftsmanship... it's a no-brainer.

generalises - saying it isn't so, doesn't stop it from being so!!

Perhaps being from Australia, English isn't your primary language?

- how in any way is that relevant to anything at all? Do you suggest that a plausible argument can ONLY be made in English by a native speaker of the language? That's really odd.

Marc!

EASmithV · Mar 10, 2013

Historically, Chinese made machines and machinist work have had the reputation of being sub par compared to an American equivalent of a similar era. While to some extent this continues to this day, some Chinese companies have made a concerted effort to change the reputation, so while some products are made well, like the Toyo or Shen-Hao, some other products may be shoddy or sloppily done. I have a DaYi 6x12 back and the build quality is impressive.

Now stop being so butthurt and insisting on going out of your way to derail the topic, please. I have a Sri Lankan friend who could make many inflammatory comments on the racist or otherwise racially oriented treatment he has received in Australia when he used to travel on business before he got a US Passport. Nobody is perfect.

Personally I would go with the Deardorff. The way it encloses really appeals to me, and I like the look of the wood. While it says "wilderness" on it, the fact that it comes in a large aluminum case makes me wonder who lugs it more than a few dozen feet from the car.

munz6869 · Mar 10, 2013

Nobody is perfect.

On that we can all agree

I'd pick the Deardorff too - a proven design and a beautiful camera.

Marc!

Deardorff 8x10 vs Wilderness 8x10

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