Dear Simon Galley

George Papantoniou

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Dear Simon,

A long time ago (8 years, maybe) Ilford has printed a great dev time table for their films (on one side) with their developers and a few other ones and other brand films (on the other side) with their devlopers.

I found this table really useful for finding dev times (at least the ones I have to start experimenting from) for I use many of Ilford's great products...

A couple of days ago a student came to my darkroom to develop one roll of HP5 (that I rarely use for myself) and one roll of Delta 400 (that I never use).

We wanted to develop them using D-76 (ID-11) and looked for the recommended time on Ilford's table...

Delta 400 has the same recommended times for the two identical developers (D-76 and ID-11), which seems logical.

The problem is that HP-5 has different times... And not just different...

For ID-11 the film seems to need 7.5 minutes at Stock Solution, 13 minutes at 1+1 and 20 minutes at 1+3.

For D-76 it needs 7.5 at Stock (the same like with ID-11), 11 at 1+1 (Less than with ID-11) and 22 at 1+3 (more tham with ID-11)... does that sound logical ?

With FP-4 things are different. It seems to need more development in D-76 (with all dilutions) than in ID-11, although the difference (in percentage) varies in different dilutions (which does not necessarily make sense)...

Who put toghether this table ? Is the above info correct ? I haven't checked other films times, there might be other errors in it...
 

Keith Tapscott.

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The development times quoted by Ilford or any other manufacturer are starting point times, they`re not carved in stone and should be adjusted if necessary to suit your own personal needs. Use what they suggest to start with and then go figure. You shouldn`t be far out and a simple change in paper grade will get you started if a bit too flat or contrasty. Make notes for future reference to changes needed.
 
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George Papantoniou

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Leon, Keith... thanks for the tips but I know all that... I just wanted to tease Simon, who I think is always very nice and kind (as a Brit) and responds to all the questions and complaints of APUGers in the forum... I don't think the matter is so serious, after all the Romans said "Errata humanum est" (or something like that)...
 

pentaxuser

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I raised a related point on the trip to Ilford. I think you'll find Ilford are aware of these matters and will be addressing such. Harman Technology/Ilford struck me as a company which intends to eventually cross all the T's and dot all the I's for its customers.

As Leon says, if it is giving you a specific and immediate problem then there is a contact us part of their website which you can use.

pentaxuser
 

Ole

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George Papantoniou said:
... after all the Romans said "Errata humanum est" (or something like that)...
Click to expand...

"Humanity is a mistake"???
 

roteague

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Ole said:
"Humanity is a mistake"???
Click to expand...

I don't know, Ole. It does explain digital, but not film users.
 

Keith Tapscott.

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A bit of leg pulling eh George? I agree a bit of fun is needed at times on the forum.
Cheers.
 

JBrunner

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Ole said:
"Humanity is a mistake"???
Click to expand...

Animals... God's second blunder....
 

srs5694

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JBrunner said:
Animals... God's second blunder....
Click to expand...

This reminds me of a Mark Twain quote: "In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards."
 
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George Papantoniou

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Correction:

Errare humanum est

Sorry Ole, I never had a Latin class at school...(damn Greek educational system)...
 

arigram

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mea culpa, is easier and to the point (I never had latin myself, I figure out, greek is enough).
 

pentaxuser

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Time you guys turned the tables on us who use the Latin alphabetamd told us that we have funny letters like D, G plus others and a P which isn't pronounced like an R or a B which isn't pronounced like a V. We pronounce X like ks and not like "ch". Why?

Worse than that we need 26 letters to make a language whereas the economical Greeks manage with 24.

Sometimes Latin alphabet words almost seem recognisable then we throw in the funny letters which make our words strange.

It's time that the Greeks said that to English tourists who cannot quite understand how anyone came to speak another language let alone use another alphabet.

Seriously though, I am sure you guys would find things much easier if you got rid of that funny triangle called delta, the 3 sided rectangle called Pi plus other squiggly letters and used our alphabet instead.

pentaxuser
 

arigram

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pentaxuser said:
Seriously though, I am sure you guys would find things much easier if you got rid of that funny triangle called delta, the 3 sided rectangle called Pi plus other squiggly letters and used our alphabet instead.

pentaxuser
Click to expand...

Oh, there has been proposals in the past to do that.
But considering that both the latin and the cyrillic alphabet derive from the greek, I prefer the original... plus I find the greek undercase characters much prettier than the latin and the almost non existant cyrillic.


Anyway... so much for the battle of alphabets!
 

Ole

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pentaxuser said:
Worse than that we need 26 letters to make a language whereas the economical Greeks manage with 24.
Click to expand...

And some find even 26 letters to be too few, so we add another three. Just to make life interesting for the keyboard makers, of course...
 

Black Dog

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Plenty of English people can barely manage to speak their own language LMSO...........
 

jmailand

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George Papantoniou said:
We wanted to develop them using D-76 (ID-11) and looked for the recommended time on Ilford's table...

Delta 400 has the same recommended times for the two identical developers (D-76 and ID-11), which seems logical.
Click to expand...

I'm sure I have read some where that d76 and id11 are slightly different because Kodak puts some kind of buffer agent in there developer so they can ship it in one bag and have a long shelf life. Ilford ships in 2 separate bags to be mixed up by customer.
see website http://www.jackspcs.com/d76.htm
 

sanderx1

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Black Dog said:
Plenty of English people can barely manage to speak their own language LMSO...........
Click to expand...

Yeah ... but on the other hand, they can fairly blame the keyoard makers for not including ï (among others) on the keyboard for not being able to properly spell it online
 

Simon R Galley

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Dear All,

Having now read the three pages of this thread...I have now forgotten the original question.....

We have over the years produced so many processing charts...and to be honest we have had some 'differing' results over the years, as to the great ID11 and D76 debate, we have seen the KODAK product change ( ? different places of manufacture / raw materials ).

Someone gave the absolute correct answer : Use our times as a guide, and then do your own testing for your own type of work, how you like your negs and how you intend to print and then you will get the film / dev / time / agitation combo that suites you...and your work.

Fair answer ?

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited
 
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