Dear Abby: Familial Advice Sought

Christopher Walrath · Aug 7, 2010

My wife has a great eye for composition. But she still is leaving the P and S phase of photography. And everytime I try and encourage her to do more and learn more, she takes it as criticism and gets all defensive. But she won't push herself to do more though she states that she wishes to do more. 'Other people talk about her photography but not mine.'. Well, just give them something to talk about then. They have nothing to look at.

Then on to the her in 'her photography'. My sister in law has comparable skill but is at the other end of the motivation spectrum. She suffers from cart-before-the-goat syndrome. She is definitely still in her formative years. She has joined the Delaware Pro Photogs group and has gone to school and is studying to become a CPP. She can focus, click and hook her camera up to a PC. She touts herself as a Pro Photog and is hiring herself out to do weddings. But she's not ready, skill-wise. She asks advice and I hate the nod and bite my tongue habit of lying by ommision that I have developed.

Man, they ask and take it all wrong. So, how do I get across that I have no opinion that either of them is going to give the hind of a rodent about? I know a prophet is never heard in his own country. So how do I get them to lower my own frustration level without simultaneously raising the stress level.

Help me, Abby.
Bewildered in Delaware.

P. S. Rant concluded. Don't let that stop you.
PSS. My sister is happily a snapshootist with a Digi p and s sans delusions of granduer. No stress there. The pics are what they are.

mgb74 · Aug 7, 2010

Many years ago we bought a car with a manual transmission. My wife did not know how to drive a stick. I got her sister's boyfriend to teach her how to drive it. If I hadn't, I'd be her ex-husband.

BTW, I also refused to watch.

Vaughn · Aug 7, 2010

Dear Bewildered in Delaware,

Run, do not walk, to the nearest place of liquid refreshment. You are inbetween a geological formation and a place of infinite firmness.

Signed,

Dear Abby

First verse and chorus of "Dear Abby", by John Prine...

Dear Abby, Dear Abby ...
My feet are too long
My hair's falling out and my rights are all wrong
My friends they all tell me that I've no friends at all
Won't you write me a letter, Won't you give me a call
Signed Bewildered

Chorus:

Bewildered, Bewildered
You have no complaint
You are what your are and you ain't what you ain't
So listen up Buster, and listen up good
Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood

sun of sand · Aug 7, 2010

just keep saying what you think you should
if you dont like being put in a situation where youre only going to keep on losing
remind them of that

ignore

if they dont like that
ask them what their goal is
say that

Sirius Glass · Aug 7, 2010

Dear Bewildered in Delaware,

Silence is golden. If you value peace in your marriage, see the previous sentence.

Abby

Eric Rose · Aug 7, 2010

it's a losing battle. when she is ready to take responsibility for her creative output then she will be more receptive.

lns · Aug 7, 2010

You know the old "honey, do I look fat in these pants" question.

The answer is "no." Always. No matter what. Maybe in extremis you could say, "they look great, but I actually think that other outfit looks even better." But that's really the limit. And only if the pants look really fat.

I'm not sure why some men don't get that about us.

So, Delaware dude, you seem to be coming across as critical. You may mean to be encouraging, or helpful, but both these women are hearing something else. So just point out something positive. If worse comes to worse, there's always, "great colors!"

-Laura

mopar_guy · Aug 7, 2010

Bewildered,
So what's wrong with your wife being a snapshooter? Get over it.
Abby

flatulent1 · Aug 8, 2010

lns said:
You know the old "honey, do I look fat in these pants" question.

-Laura

My favorite reply was "It's not the pants."
Did I mention I'm single?

Shawn Dougherty · Aug 8, 2010

Vaughn said:
Dear Bewildered in Delaware,

Run, do not walk, to the nearest place of liquid refreshment. You are inbetween a geological formation and a place of infinite firmness.

Chris, unfortunately I think Vaughn nailed it.... Good luck!

Shawn

tkamiya · Aug 8, 2010

If your wife is satisfied with P&S photography, then let her enjoy her photography in her own way.

If your sister in law thinks she is a pro, let her think that way. If she asks questions, answer it. If she digs herself into a hole, it's her problem, not yours.

I *think* you are caring about their photography than they themselves are.... and it really doesn't need to be that way. Some people are satisfied with P&S. Some "pros" really aren't.

An opinion from a single guy....

Christopher Walrath · Aug 8, 2010

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And I think that puts it best. I care more rhan they do.

But I'm gonna definitely use "Great colors".

That's stinkin' awesome.

Thanks all.

Worker 11811 · Aug 8, 2010

Just an obtuse thought...

Ansel Adams' wife helped manage his photography business. Didn't she?
Then, after a while, she turned out to be a decent photographer... not famous but good on her own. Am I right? Or, maybe I'm dreaming. Still, it's not uncommon for spouses to become accomplished at things their husbands/wives do.

Point being that you might be able to encourage her to help "manage" and, over time, you could urge her down the slippery slope to becoming a photographer on her own.

Just a silly thought.

Rick A · Aug 8, 2010

Chris, tkamiya has some sound advise, i agree with it to a point. You do care far too much, and your love for them AND photography shows. It appears to me that you want to put your arms around them and shepherd them to your level, but they aren't moving at the pacr you would like. A simple nod (or word) of approval from time to time, a gentle suggestion at times un-asked for, constant pats on the back for doing a good job, and loads of I love you's, followed by deep breaths and an occasional adult beverage. Then go out and make your own photos the way you want and not concern yourself with their art.

bdial · Aug 8, 2010

Tell your wife how much you like her pictures, and leave it at that. If or when she wants to learn more or got to some next step, she'll tell you.

Robert Budding · Aug 8, 2010

I took a color printing workshop several years ago at the New England School of Photography from Tom Petit. He had the most wonderful way of 'criticizing' students work; he asked questions. How do you feel about this photo? Why? Do you feel that it stands out from similar photos you've seen? What might you try to make the image stronger? Have you considered this?

He didn't just engage in criticism. He had a conversation with the student, and he tried to understand their intent and why they took the photo. I always walked away with fresh ideas, and I always looked forward to working with Tom.

2F/2F · Aug 8, 2010

As long as they are having fun doing what they are doing, let 'em have at it...and you have at your own thing (having fun too). You are all individuals. You each are gonna do exactly what you each want to do. Just each do what you need to do to enjoy photography. If they decide they need to ask technical questions of you in order to enjoy photography, they will ask.

As for being asked to state opinions you don't want to state, avoid, avoid, avoid! Change the subject A.S.A.P.!!! Say something about your reaction to the work, not the work itself. Ask questions! Lots! If you get them talking, then you don't have to, and they will think you are such a great guy for being such a listener! A photo is always a good starting point for an off-topic discussion! Give praise where praise is due (i.e. to your wife), and change the subject when criticism is due (i.e. to your sister-in-law).

P.S. Have you tried working as a team? For instance, you letting your wife compose the shot, and her letting you worry about the technique? Maybe you would end up with something better than anything you've done separately...and wouldn't a husband and wife working as true artistic partners make a great, romantic story (and great marketing to local galleries)?

Toffle · Aug 8, 2010

One other thing... PRAY that neither your wife or sister in law ever stumble across this thread.
(As for the "fat pants" question... That question cannot be safely answered... Every married male (who wishes to remain so) should have a panic button that creates a diversion by making the phone ring... or makes the floor shake and the lights flicker... or sends the car through the back wall of the garage.)

Christopher Walrath · Aug 8, 2010

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Their both D-shooters and don't understand why I post over 5,000 times about a 65 year old camera and outdated techniques. ;p

Knock on wood, they won't be here anytime soon.

Sirius Glass · Aug 8, 2010

lns said:
You know the old "honey, do I look fat in these pants" question.

The answer is "no." Always. No matter what. Maybe in extremis you could say, "they look great, but I actually think that other outfit looks even better." But that's really the limit. And only if the pants look really fat.

The BEST answer is "Yes". Sure you will get crap for a while. Maybe silence, which to men is golden. But you will never, never be bothered by that question or questions like it again. Your marriage will go on and be stonger because you can be much more understanding since you will not ever get a loaded question again.

Women do not get it. Just don't bother us with suicide questions and we can be there with you much better.

Been there, done that. It works. Women hate it, but the proof is that it works and then life is better for all.

Christopher Walrath · Aug 8, 2010

Knowing my wife, I think my dancing moves have been finely tuned enough for the avoidance thing. Now where's the tequila?

bblhed · Aug 8, 2010

I want to know what the problem is? I was a mechanic for years and I own over $10,000 worth of tools that I almost never use but they are mine and when I need them I know where they are, why do I mention this? because I married a woman that can't fix or repair anything so she keeps her hands off my tools and that makes me happy.

I say you should tell your wife that you love her work, and really wish that if she ever has any questions or wants to know how to do something she should ask you and you will be more than willing to help her in any way you can if she wants your help, then reassure her that as long as she enjoys taking, looking at and showing off her photos your happy.

As for your Sister in Law, as long as she isn't buying the food for your house let her know that your opinion of how to compose a photo is far less important than that of her clients, they are paying her, you would only be offering your artistic opinion of what you think of the photo if your not paying her for her photos they don't have to appeal to you. If you like her you can offer to help her out with things she is having trouble capturing but you would prefer that she be specific about what help she needs, and that she should not ask for artistic advice beyond what technical things she whats to know how to do to produce a desired result, for composition and posing subjects she is on her own.

Then let the both of them know that you would prefer that they not ask to borrow your equipment without at least having you present for the photo shoot, if you let them use the equipment at all.

You have not lied, you made your point, you offered help, you offered support, you offered encouragement but most important you have saved your equipment from their hands.

There is an old saying "Lend out your wife, she can take care of herself, don't lend out your tools" I would like to add "Don't lend your tools to your wife or neither may come back undamaged".

Vaughn · Aug 8, 2010

Something I learned about the internet -- never respond in a serious manner to a rant. Just go with the flow and offer nothing but support and a bit of humor

Rudeofus · Aug 9, 2010

The problem seems to be that you are quite good at something that your wife is also interested in. If she picks up more skills, she'll still be behind you - which is highly frustrating in a partnership. The best thing is if you make her do things with her P&S which you can't ever do, so she plays in a different league. My wife, for instance, uses here P&S to make short video clips of our kids, which happily coexist with my still pics.

Christopher Walrath · Aug 10, 2010

I really appreciate the support all. I had know idea that APUG really stood for Abigails Provide Until Goods. Wow, photography and more. Difinitely going with the avoidance thing.

And a question crept into the vast and dark recesses of my mind last evening. If I reply that a photograph has great color and THEN I notice it is a black and white photograph, what then?

Dear Abby: Familial Advice Sought

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