Dealing with under/over-exposed & -developed negatives; scanning or enlarging

koraks

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
21,956
Location
Europe
Format
Multi Format
Even if a digital camera can capture better images, how can we be sure for this?

There's plenty of knowledge about this generated through the past 3 decades of research. The long & short of it is that camera capture can be perfectly adequate at a very high level of image reproduction. Only for very particular purposes like conservation there can arguably be a need to move beyond regular RGB camera capture.

Generally, we must calibrate the camera and workflow based on the widely recognized results from darkroom prints and traditional scanning.
Calibration assumes a golden standard/baseline, which does not exist for color or B&W negatives.
 

250swb

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
1,504
Location
Peak District
Format
Multi Format

You appear to have changed the topic from 'difficult negatives' to a generalised discussion? Have you ever owned a film scanner? Serious question because making a low contrast scan to get the maximum tonal range is a tried and tested technique. The reason is because film scanners left to themselves fall off the cliff at either end of their dynamic range and respond less well to deep shadows or bright highlights in the negative than recording mid tones. With 'difficult' negatives (or slides) this a exaggerated, and this is hard to believe I know, but the scanner software has no way of knowing what the negative is like. Amazing isn't it, the scanner is actually a dumb instrument, so the photographer has to do something, and it seems that is what you are objecting to. It is not re-inventing the wheel, it is acknowledging that wheels now have tyres on them, things have moved on.
 

250swb

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
1,504
Location
Peak District
Format
Multi Format

It's an interesting idea that you think the OP has a professional film scanner, otherwise I think we have to live in the real world. A slide has a typical DR of 4-5 stops, a negative can be 15 stops, so it doesn't actually need a professional scanner to extract 4-5 stops of information.
 

Yezishu

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2024
Messages
122
Location
Hong Kong
Format
35mm

You may want to double-check whether you’re confusing information recording capability with display capability.
Professional scanners often handle slide films with Dmax above 4.0, and even desktop scanners can measure up to 4.2–5.0.
As for negatives, their transmittance light does not reach 15 stops. Their 15-stop information is compressed can only be realized after printing to a positive. As PE noted about Kodak’s process, positives for cinema can reach densities of 0.2–4.0 or higher, but their oringinal negatives typically have a much smaller density range, with Dmax around 3.0.

 
  • koraks
  • Deleted
  • Reason: Let's not

koraks

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
21,956
Location
Europe
Format
Multi Format
Have you ever owned a film scanner?
Yes. I also understand the difference between essential concepts like film dynamic range and transmission silver/dye density. I think this discussion only makes sense if you understand those basics first.

Also, you might want to define 'professional film scanner' so we're all on the same page. I for now assume that most of us work with anything in-between consumer flatbeds like Canon 9000f and Epson v-series scanners up to old, salvaged drum scanners, with the majority using Epson flatbeds or dedicated 'pro-sumer' film scanners like the Minolta Scan Dual series, Nikon LS series and more recent Plustek units. In terms of dynamic range, they all cover a similar bandwidth and for all of these devices it's true that we do not strictly speaking know how gain control is done, i.e. through which combination of hard- and software measures, although some hints can be derived from e.g. noise profiles or scan speeds.

You appear to have changed the topic from 'difficult negatives' to a generalised discussion?
I'm OK with discussing general scanning technique in relation to subjects like dynamic range and noise performance in the Scanning subforum. I was responding to an erroneous assumption on your part that resulted in a factually wrong recommendation within the context of this thread, so I feel it was relevant.
 
Last edited:
  • Craig
  • Deleted
  • Reason: Offtopic
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…