Dealing with old paper?

Arg6442 · Feb 8, 2019

Hello!

I was recently working in the darkroom of a close family friend, who has been a lifelong photographer. While I was there, he gifted me about 1000 sheets of AZO grades 2 & 3 from the 90s. The paper printed beautifully while I was there, and I made some of my best prints ever on it. Bringing it back to my darkroom, I've noticed that while the contrast appears fine and the paper is not at all fogged, the grade three has lost significant speed. Under my enlarger, I'm getting exposure times of over one minute, sometimes up to three.

Is there any way that I should deal with this? Should I just suck it up and wait the long exposure times out or is there a revision I can make to my system?

I'm printing under the light of a Besseler Dichro 67, lens in (lens out caused vignetting on 5x7 when the enlarger was as close to the paper as possible), Developing in Ilford multigrade (I have some Ansco 130 on the way, as I've heard good things about it), toning in selenium.

Thanks!

David Lyga · Feb 8, 2019

How long was the time from when it was good to NOW? If not YEARS, his enlarger might have had a very bright halogen light and you do not visualize the difference in brightness. Rather impossible that the paper could lose speed in a matter of days, weeks, or months. Was this paper INTENDED for enlargement or contact printing? There are some papers (usually older, discontinued) that require up to 5 minutes exposure time under an enlarger because they were INTENDED for contact printing. I would like to see for myself what you are talking about. - David Lyga

RauschenOderKorn · Feb 8, 2019

Azo is a slow contact printing paper. It’s a surprise that it prints in an enlarger with these “short” exposure times.

If times were shorter at your friend’s, his enlarger has either a stronger bulb or a faster lens (or both).

Arg6442 · Feb 8, 2019

David Lyga said:
How long was the time from when it was good to NOW? If not YEARS, his enlarger might have had a very bright halogen light and you do not visualize the difference in brightness. Rather impossible that the paper could lose speed in a matter of days, weeks, or months. Was this paper INTENDED for enlargement or contact printing? There are some papers (usually older, discontinued) that require up to 5 minutes exposure time under an enlarger because they were INTENDED for contact printing. I would like to see for myself what you are talking about. - David Lyga

This is AZO, which is for contact work only.

removed account4 · Feb 8, 2019

Arg6442 said:
Hello!

I was recently working in the darkroom of a close family friend, who has been a lifelong photographer. While I was there, he gifted me about 1000 sheets of AZO grades 2 & 3 from the 90s. The paper printed beautifully while I was there, and I made some of my best prints ever on it. Bringing it back to my darkroom, I've noticed that while the contrast appears fine and the paper is not at all fogged, the grade three has lost significant speed. Under my enlarger, I'm getting exposure times of over one minute, sometimes up to three.

Is there any way that I should deal with this? Should I just suck it up and wait the long exposure times out or is there a revision I can make to my system?

I'm printing under the light of a Besseler Dichro 67, lens in (lens out caused vignetting on 5x7 when the enlarger was as close to the paper as possible), Developing in Ilford multigrade (I have some Ansco 130 on the way, as I've heard good things about it), toning in selenium.

Thanks!

Greetings !

I also enjoy using Azo paper and have some boxes that are from the Dark Ages that still print very well. I am not sure if have seen the writings on Azo afficinato Michael A Smith ? He is the person who pretty much single handedly convinced Eastman Kodak to continue making Azo even after the writing was on the wall. He has written extensively about how to use it. http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/html/Azo_Main.html
I also use Ansco 130 when I develop my paper, and have never used the recommended Amidol Developer. Some swear by it but like you, I can't really complain. When you run out of Azo MAS started his own like of Photograph Papers ( Silver Chloride Contact Printing Paper like AZO ) called Lodima. If you like AZO you will probably like LODIMA.

J

Sal Santamaura · Feb 8, 2019

jnantz said:
...Michael A Smith ? He is the person...

Was the person. Michael died recently.

jnantz said:
...When you run out of Azo MAS started his own like of Photograph Papers ( Silver Chloride Contact Printing Paper like AZO ) called Lodima. If you like AZO you will probably like LODIMA...

I'm not aware of any answer to the question of whether Paula will continue having LODIMA made going forward now that Michael's gone.

Alan9940 · Feb 8, 2019

Back many, many years ago when I used Azo (when you could buy it new!) it was much too slow to properly expose via an enlarger lightsource. Today, I use Lodima and Lupex doing contact prints under a 300 watt tungsten bulb.

RauschenOderKorn · Feb 8, 2019

Adox Lupex is in production and available.

Arg6442 · Feb 8, 2019

jnantz said:
Greetings !

I also enjoy using Azo paper and have some boxes that are from the Dark Ages that still print very well. I am not sure if have seen the writings on Azo afficinato Michael A Smith ? He is the person who pretty much single handedly convinced Eastman Kodak to continue making Azo even after the writing was on the wall. He has written extensively about how to use it. http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/html/Azo_Main.html
I also use Ansco 130 when I develop my paper, and have never used the recommended Amidol Developer. Some swear by it but like you, I can't really complain. When you run out of Azo MAS started his own like of Photograph Papers ( Silver Chloride Contact Printing Paper like AZO ) called Lodima. If you like AZO you will probably like LODIMA.

J

Hi, thanks for the response!

I’ve been considering getting some lodima as well and playing with it. Is there any word on the, uh, stability of production? I’m not sure I’d be interested in going through the process of testing a paper only to see it discontinued in a few years.

Arg6442 · Feb 8, 2019

RauschenOderKorn said:
Adox Lupex is in production and available.

It seems to be considerably more expensive than lodima ($110 vs $77 for 25 8x10s). Are there grades other than #3?

RauschenOderKorn · Feb 8, 2019

Arg6442 said:
It seems to be considerably more expensive than lodima ($110 vs $77 for 25 8x10s). Are there grades other than #3?

Fotoimpex only has grade "Normal", so I don´t think so.

Where did you get that price for the Adox Lupex from? Fotoimpex sells the 25 8x10s Lupex at € 58,31, which is more or less 66 US$ (55 US$ without the 19% VAT, if you export it to the US).

Alan9940 · Feb 8, 2019

Arg6442 said:
It seems to be considerably more expensive than lodima ($110 vs $77 for 25 8x10s). Are there grades other than #3?

AFAIK, grade N (normal...#3) is the only grade available for Lupex; and, if you're in the USA buy it direct from fotoimpex. I buy it in 100-sheet boxes and even with the shipping it's signifcantly less expensive than buying it stateside.

MattKing · Feb 8, 2019

You need more light from your light source.
Are all the dichroic filters set to zero?

Sal Santamaura · Feb 9, 2019

Arg6442 said:
It seems to be considerably more expensive than lodima ($110 vs $77 for 25 8x10s)...

Alan9940 said:
...Lupex; and, if you're in the USA buy it direct from fotoimpex. I buy it in 100-sheet boxes and even with the shipping it's signifcantly less expensive than buying it stateside.

If we're talking about 8x10, there's no charge for shipping, even to the U.S. At current exchange rates, that 100-sheet box costs $189.30 delivered:

https://www.fotoimpex.com/photopape...eets-gradation-normal-3.html?cache=1549690456

removed account4 · Feb 9, 2019

Sal Santamaura said:
Was the person. Michael died recently.I'm not aware of any answer to the question of whether Paula will continue having LODIMA made going forward now that Michael's gone.

Sorry for the confusion, I always like to think of people in the present tense. While he might not be here, he is still here.

Arg6442 said:
Hi, thanks for the response!

I’ve been considering getting some lodima as well and playing with it. Is there any word on the, uh, stability of production? I’m not sure I’d be interested in going through the process of testing a paper only to see it discontinued in a few years.

I can't help you in that department. One thing about Silver Chloride/Gaslight papers is you need a dense negative for it to work best. It will increase your exposure time but you will get beautiful prints in return. If or when both Lupex and Lodima cease production you can always buy the books and visit the websites on how to make photo emulsion and make your own from scratch. It is not that difficult making a silver chloride photo emulsion. There is a seawater emulsion on the Lightfarm website made by Chris Patton http://thelightfarm.com/Map/DryPlate/Patton/DryPlatePart.htm that looks like it is not difficult to make, and it can be coated on paper as easily as glass.

Best of luck !

Dealing with old paper?

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