De Vere 203 & Multigrade 500c head - power's just died

Martin CF · Jun 20, 2017

I was running my De Vere 203 (with Multigrade 500c head) today for the first time (it was a donation a few months ago). All seemed fine for the first 1.5 hrs. I popped out for 5 mins and on my return there was a burning smell.

To my surprise, light smoke was emanating from the Multigrade power unit (the big heavy black thing). The power had already switched off.

Upon opening it, there looks like some parts may have melted near the large coil. It's hard to tell, but, it doesn't look good. It would turn back on after 10 mins.

Anyone had similar experiences and any recommended fixes/ways to replace?

Really gutted as it's a beautiful piece of kit.

Lachlan Young · Jun 20, 2017

It's not unknown with age etc. They're pushing 30-35 years old & they're pretty complex machines.

Replacement of the power unit is probably going to be the cheapest option sadly - contact Odyssey Sales at http://www.deveresecondhanddarkroom.com/contact-us & see if they can help. They'll also likely be the most expensive option. £400 for the power supply was the number I recall. Somewhere like https://www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk/ or Mr Cad or RK Photographic might have a suitable power supply lurking around.

George Nova Scotia · Jun 20, 2017

Some picture might help. I managed to fix one a while back but no magic smoke was released at that time. I recommend you not turn it back on until you can isolate the trouble. Melted parts are never good. The brackets that hold the ends on are rather fragile maybe something broke and caused a short. I'd offer to have a look but shipping from the UK to Canada would be scary.

Martin CF · Jun 20, 2017

Thanks for the response. I've contacted both Odyssey and Seconhanddarkroom already, and have spotted a few around the £300-£350 mark.

Martin CF · Jun 20, 2017

George Nova Scotia said:
Some picture might help. I managed to fix one a while back but no magic smoke was released at that time. I recommend you not turn it back on until you can isolate the trouble. Melted parts are never good. The brackets that hold the ends on are rather fragile maybe something broke and caused a short. I'd offer to have a look but shipping from the UK to Canada would be scary.

I'm not at the place to take a photo, but will do so tomorrow morning. There's little to see except: what looks like melted glue like substance near the coil (not sure if relevant, could've been there beforehand); and, a unconnected ground wire (I've since spotted this after posting my original message). Not sure where that one should go.

Anon Ymous · Jun 20, 2017

Sorry for not being very helpful, but what's so special about this PSU? Can't it be replaced by any other unit that can provide the same voltage and same maximum current at that voltage? 300 - 350 quid sounds way too much IMHO.

mshchem · Jun 20, 2017

Anon Ymous said:
Sorry for not being very helpful, but what's so special about this PSU? Can't it be replaced by any other unit that can provide the same voltage and same maximum current at that voltage? 300 - 350 quid sounds way too much IMHO.

This occurred to me as well. You might want to find a good Handyman or electrician.
Sorry for your loss, Good Luck

Lachlan Young · Jun 20, 2017

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-c...e-500-Exposure-System-Service-Manual-Copy.pdf if you fancy having a go yourself...

Top quality custom wound power transformers are not cheap.

Anon Ymous · Jun 20, 2017

Lachlan Young said:
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-c...e-500-Exposure-System-Service-Manual-Copy.pdf if you fancy having a go yourself...

Top quality custom wound power transformers are not cheap.

But nowadays they are replaced by much smaller, lighter and cheaper switch mode PSUs. Anyway, IDK if it can be replaced by such a unit if repair is not feasible, but it's worth some consideration.

George Nova Scotia · Jun 20, 2017

Which end of the supply is the damage? The right hand side has the circuit board and relays. The left side if I recall has mainly connectors but I'm a little foggy.

It's a little more than a power supply, the circuit board supplies 5vdc for the control unit, the 60/50hz reference signal, controls the fan and safelight, plus switches the lamps. Not overly complicated and for the most part repairable. The big concern would be damage to the transformer which would fun to find a replacement for. The unconnected ground wire may touched something it shouldn't have or something may have shorted to ground and the wire gave up it's life to save the darkroom.

Ron789 · Jun 20, 2017

I had exactly the same problem. It's a known issue with the Ilford 500 power supply. The transformer gets overheated and the insulation melts and burns. Getting a new transformer will be very expensive; spare parts are no longer available (I contacted Ilford and the original supplier of the transformer) so you would need a specialized company the build a transformer to match the original. Since the power supply unit is very complex there is no simple substitute.
I was lucky to find another complete 500 system. Also note: there are different versions of this system and the components are not interchangeable. The power supply of my new system does not match with the head of my previous system.
I'm sorry.... no good news.

Peter Schrager · Jun 20, 2017

Buy a few enlargeers from Kienzle and be done with it..they look like nice machines
Lets give analog a real future...and you are doing something so wonderful you might not even realize it ..

Martin CF · Jun 21, 2017

Some great response here, thanks, I really appreciate it. I'm pretty much resigned to having to purchase a new unit, but, here's the images I promised:

Here's both images on Imgur: http://imgur.com/a/H9ccM

So, will reconnecting the earth to a ground connector fix this? I'm guessing not.

Neil Souch · Jun 21, 2017

I had one go on my 504 with MG Head about 4 years ago and the answer was to buy an exchange recon unit from Odyssey. Try to get to talk to John if you can as he knows all about these power supplies and is very helpful. An exchange recon one (if yours can be repaired) is probably the quickest / cheapest option. But don't forget the freight (x2 ways) and the cost of the recon unit - not cheap!

Neil.

Willyekerslike · Jun 21, 2017

Just a thought , your loose earth wire may have become detached when you opened the cabinet. In other words was it held in place by one of the cabinet screws/nuts & bolts.
Regards....W

Martin CF · Jun 21, 2017

Neil Souch said:
I had one go on my 504 with MG Head about 4 years ago and the answer was to buy an exchange recon unit from Odyssey. Try to get to talk to John if you can as he knows all about these power supplies and is very helpful. An exchange recon one (if yours can be repaired) is probably the quickest / cheapest option. But don't forget the freight (x2 ways) and the cost of the recon unit - not cheap!

Neil.

I have had an email from John this morning, but with little info. I've asked for a general estimate for repair. Cheers.

Martin CF · Jun 21, 2017

Willyekerslike said:
Just a thought , your loose earth wire may have become detached when you opened the cabinet. In other words was it held in place by one of the cabinet screws/nuts & bolts.
Regards....W

Good point, and I think that may be why we didn't spot it first when we opened it up.

Martin CF · Jun 21, 2017

AN UPDATE: I've bit the bullet and bought a replacement unit from RK Photographic. RK state it's unused and boxed, so is probably as good a condition I can ever expect. There's 14 days return so, should the old one be fixable/suddenly work again, I can send the new one back. It's £308, which is as good as I'll ever get I think, save for an unsuspecting Ebay seller, which would be rare and a long time to wait. The new one seems to be the more modern version as well.

A question: Would adding a surge protection power adapter help in any way, to ensure this doesn't happen again (apologies, electrics are not my strongpoint!)... Or, is it just a case of not having it switched on for long periods? If I'm renting the darkroom out in 3.5-4 hr blocks, I should expect it to be on for that long I guess.

Martin CF · Jun 21, 2017

ANOTHER UPDATE: So, apparently the one I've bought may be the UK version, but the one I had was the European (or US) version. The prongs connecting to the head are slightly different, and therefore not compatible. RK Photographic are looking into it for me.

However, after further investigating the dead device this afternoon, it looks like we've figured out what the problem is. It appears to be a faulty connection socket that the power lead connects into. We've figured out that that's where the burning is coming from and nothing else seems to be damaged.

The part is called FN 329-6/05 made by Schaffner. They seem to be around £10 but are discontinued. Anyone know anything about them? This is a listing for one (not available): http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/iec-filters/0238794/

It also lists a replacement, which, to me, looks the same spec. Worth trying that?

Lachlan Young · Jun 21, 2017

Martin CF said:
ANOTHER UPDATE: So, apparently the one I've bought may be the UK version, but the one I had was the European (or US) version. The prongs connecting to the head are slightly different, and therefore not compatible. RK Photographic are looking into it for me.

However, after further investigating the dead device this afternoon, it looks like we've figured out what the problem is. It appears to be a faulty connection socket that the power lead connects into. We've figured out that that's where the burning is coming from and nothing else seems to be damaged.

The part is called FN 329-6/05 made by Schaffner. They seem to be around £10 but are discontinued. Anyone know anything about them? This is a listing for one (not available): http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/iec-filters/0238794/

It also lists a replacement, which, to me, looks the same spec. Worth trying that?

Good to hear you're getting somewhere!

IEC sockets (which is what it is) are standardised parts as far as I know.

Martin CF · Jun 22, 2017

A FINAL UPDATE: All seems well again. The replacement part arrived today, has been fitted, and the unit is working once more. Phew! That's a saving of £290!

Again, a big thanks for all the comments.

Ron789 · Jun 22, 2017

Congratulations! You've been very lucky and it was really smart to thoroughly investigate the cause of the problem. Have lots of fun printing with this great piece of equipment!

George Nova Scotia · Jun 23, 2017

++ Always good to see something fixed in these days of throw away goods.

De Vere 203 & Multigrade 500c head - power's just died

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