Dbl Wt. Printing paper without emulsion?

mikewhi · Sep 8, 2004

Hi:

Does anyone know of a source to get heavy dbl weight printing paper (in at least 8x10) without an emulsion on it? Sizing would be ok, but no emulsion. I do believe that I have seen this for sale somewhere a few times but I can't remember where. I'm looking for standard b&w double-weight printing paper with no emulsion.

Thanks.

-Mike

Les McLean · Sep 8, 2004

Would 360gsm water colour art paper do the job, if so any good art supplier will have it.

mikewhi · Sep 8, 2004

Not sure. I'm looking for as little surface texture as possible and b&w printing paper seems very smooth to me. I'll go take a look, though, but it's the texture that I want to avoid.

-Mike

glbeas · Sep 8, 2004

If you had the time and inclination you could find some outdated DW paper and fix it out, wash it, and dry it so you could have some to try out. Probably would be easier to find too.

Les McLean · Sep 8, 2004

Mike if you look for hot press art paper it is generally quite smooth although I have to say not so smooth as a matt paper such as Ilford semi matt warmtone.

mikewhi · Sep 8, 2004

Clever, I had thought of doing that if I can't find what I need. I'm sure that I saw it in some internet store's inventory at some point, just can't recall where\when.....

Aggie · Sep 8, 2004

just hit Daniel Smith in Seattle

jborden · Sep 8, 2004

Try Bergger's COT-320 which apparently is the uncoated fiber base of Silver Supreme. Available at http://www.bostick-sullivan.com

glbeas · Sep 8, 2004

Craig Koshyk produced a little book on hand coating fixed out baryta paper for alt processes. I was lucky enought to get a copy but have not had time to try out the processes. He claims to be able to get an astounding Dmax but the process is tricky, hence writing the manual.
What are you planning to try?

mikewhi · Sep 8, 2004

I am planning on: "hand coating fixed out baryta paper for alt processes"!!!

Actually, I was hoping to not have to fix it out, but I'll give it a try. Wonder what's tricky about it - getting all the chemicals out properly?

I found an old post from him with a dead link to this topic. His e-mail also returns unknown. Any idea how to get hold of him? I'd like to get a copy of that booklet if at all possible.

Thanks for the lead!

-Mike

fhovie · Sep 8, 2004

My favorites are Stonhenge Rising and Cranes Plainotype - I would think one could get some severly outdated paper off e-bay and fix it out if he wanted to keep the emulsion but loose the silver.

glbeas · Sep 8, 2004

mikewhi said:
I am planning on: "hand coating fixed out baryta paper for alt processes"!!!

Actually, I was hoping to not have to fix it out, but I'll give it a try. Wonder what's tricky about it - getting all the chemicals out properly?

I found an old post from him with a dead link to this topic. His e-mail also returns unknown. Any idea how to get hold of him? I'd like to get a copy of that booklet if at all possible.

Thanks for the lead!

-Mike

The book makes it out to be the coating step that is the tricky part, that and the fact the paper will absorb a lot of sensitiser. He also said the wash probably needs to be longer. Theres slightly different techniques for glossy and matte paper in the coating too. When you get to your trial runs pm me and I'll share what Ican from the book if you can't get on yourself.

mikewhi · Sep 8, 2004

glbeas said:
He claims to be able to get an astounding Dmax but the process is tricky, hence writing the manual.
QUOTE]

The reason that I want to try this is that ever since playing with Pt\Pd somewhat that I should be able to get an 'amazing' Dmax on this paper compared to the rougher surfaces of appers typicallysed in alt processes. I know people that do this prefer these papers and this look, but I want to try this out.

If I coat baryta papers with Pt\Pd, I wonder if I'll just end up with AZO?
That would be pretty funny.....

-Mike

mikewhi · Sep 8, 2004

I have a few boxes of old Kodak Elite, which was a very heavy triple weight paper so I'll try that out first......

gainer · Sep 8, 2004

Get some outdated photo paper and remove the emulsion. Clorox will do it nicely and completely. It takes off gelatin and all.

Donald Miller · Sep 9, 2004

mikewhi said:
glbeas said:

He claims to be able to get an astounding Dmax but the process is tricky, hence writing the manual.
QUOTE]

The reason that I want to try this is that ever since playing with Pt\Pd somewhat that I should be able to get an 'amazing' Dmax on this paper compared to the rougher surfaces of appers typicallysed in alt processes. I know people that do this prefer these papers and this look, but I want to try this out.

If I coat baryta papers with Pt\Pd, I wonder if I'll just end up with AZO?
That would be pretty funny.....

-Mike

Click to expand...

Craig uses Tween as a surfactant to allow the coating to penetrate. Without using it, he says that the coating is uneven. As I recall, the other important factor is temperature during the coating process. I believe that I have a copy of his book around here somewhere.

Annie · Sep 9, 2004

Stripped Photographic Papers For Platinum Printing

Mike,

I have tested Platinum Printing on various photographic papers with the emulsion removed...

- results will vary from paper to paper... I have tried Agfa Classic, Kodak PX CD, Ilford MGFB, & Bergger (J&C).
- Kodak papers have problems with inconsistency in the coating & bleedback.
- Ilford, intermittent blotching... Under magnification this paper has uneven surface fibres that interfere with image sharpness.
- I found the Bergger (J&C) papers far superior to all others in terms of paper base colour, ease of coating, attainable Dmax, and most importantly .... sharpness of image detail.
- The papers seem to have a 'right' side (I clip one corner to identify)
- Double coating with these papers does make a significant difference.

A few things to consider when stripping emulsions...

- Wear gloves and do the emulsion removal outdoors ...the process releases some very nasty toxic fumes!
- I used a dilution of about 2:1 bleach to water. The gentle use of a soft SYNTHETIC brush will make the removal process go faster without damaging the paper surface. If you use something like a hake the bleach will dissolve the fibres.
- Keep a bucket handy when doing batches as the solution will exhaust itself and accumulate the clay base which you do not want to reintroduce to the paper (will cause bleedback and reduced Dmax).
- I washed the paper for about an hour after the bleach (it is important to ensure all the clay is rinsed out as well as the bleach....bleach eats paper, clay kills Dmax) and then gave an oxalic soak to get the pH back up to where it should be. You may want to do the gelatine thing as well.

I believe that for a high key image rendered with delicacy of tone and sharpness of detail the stripped Bergger is absolutely sublime. I found that using fixed out paper had an assortment of problems including attaining evenness of coating (even with a surficant) and effective clearing.

Also there is always the option of fixing out the paper and just using the backside.

Hope this helps..... Annie

Dbl Wt. Printing paper without emulsion?

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