"Day light" type tanks for 4x5

Polybun · Nov 9, 2008

Any sugestions on day light type tanks for 4x5 cut film? I do not have a dark room, all i have is a bathroom sink and a nice big changing bag, which as worked well enough for me on 135 and 120.

2F/2F · Nov 9, 2008

If you can afford it, a Jobo 3010 or 3006 with a manual roller base. It is far superior to anything else I have tried. It is especially useful for color, where chemicals are more expensive, more sensitive to oxidization and expiry, are reused more often than with b/w, and where constant agitation is not a drawback because you won't be doing stand development. The tank runs with only 210-350mL; very economical. I use 250mL per batch, one shot developer. That is less than a dollar's worth of C-41 developer per batch; about seven cents per sheet.

bdial · Nov 9, 2008

Another choice from Jobo is a 2500 series tank and a sheet film reel, which holds 6 sheets, the tank and reel cost about 70 USD +-. You can use these on their side with a roller base, or use it filled with chemistry in the same way you use a roll film tank. This works well, although it uses a lot of chemistry.

Many people like the HP Combi tank, http://www.freestylephoto.biz/459809-Combi-Plan-T-4x5-Processing-Tank-with-Lid.

Finally there are btz tubes which are more or less black PVC pipe with caps. I can't find a link at the moment, but someone will post one, you can also search in here. Some folks roll their own with these, but you have to be careful, because not all black PVC is actually opaque.

If I didn't have a Jobo machine, I'd probably go with the Combi. Especially with a changing bag, a Jobo reel wouldn't be easy to use in a changing bag, and it would take quite a large one, more likely a changing tent to fit a 3000 series drum. BTZ tubes would be easy enough to work with in a bag.

David A. Goldfarb · Nov 9, 2008

There is also the Nikor sheet film tank, which you can find second hand--

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ian Grant · Nov 9, 2008

Since about 1976 I've been using a Jobo 2000 Series tank for 5x4 it's excellent, 18 months ago I bought a second. Of course later 3000 series tanks are better as they fit the Jobo rotary processors but Ib prefer inversion agitation.

I also have a Combi type tank but they aren't as good, it's harder to get even agitation due to the design.

Ian

mrbryanmarshall · Nov 9, 2008

i use a combi tank, loading is a little trick in a dark bag but you get use to it. for the price, im surprised they leak a little (mine does anyway) but other wise no complaints. Also, allow about 45secs to 1min for draining and about 45 secs for filling.

Akki14 · Nov 9, 2008

I don't shoot much or often so I just stick one 4x5 sheet in my paterson tank (No reel, just centre column to keep it light tight) sideways and fill it with 800ml of chemicals. I tried 2 sheets which does sort of work but sometimes the corners poke each other and you get odd marks on the corners of the film from that.

mwdake · Nov 9, 2008

You could give the Unicolor Unidrum a try.
The 8x10 will hold 4 4x5 sheet films if you use the spacers to prevent the sheets from moving over each other.

They are cheap and easy to find and if you manage to find one with a roller base even better.
I use one and I use 200ml of solutions each go.

I tried the Yankee cut film tanks and didn't like the huge volume of chemistry needed even though it could hold more film.

rshepard · Nov 9, 2008

Polybun said:
Any sugestions on day light type tanks for 4x5 cut film? I do not have a dark room, all i have is a bathroom sink and a nice big changing bag, which as worked well enough for me on 135 and 120.

It really depends on what developer you'll use and the method of developing. For non-pyro developers the Jobo and an expert tank (or a film tank) will work well. I use my Jobo for 120 roll film, but I use the Yankee tank with both 2-1/4x3-1/4 and 4x5 sheet film.

Continuous agitation with the roll film takes advantage of the Jobo system and produces the negatives as I want them. However, I use Pyrocat-HD (glycol) for my sheet film with extreme stand development (the terminology is rather loose); that is, 30 minutes total development time with 15 second agitation initially, at 7.5 minutes, 15 minutes, and 22.5 minutes. It works well for me and the volume of the tank is not really an issue since I do multiple negatives simultaneously.

HTH,

Rich

Polybun · Nov 9, 2008

I've often considered a job system. During the summer I shoot BMX racing in 135 on neopan 1600. Its not unusual to come home with anywhere from a single roll, to 6 rolls. I've been using a patterson tank that allows me two rolls at a time, but a jobo setup where i could get all 6 done at once would be A. more echonomical B. and more importantly, faster.

On the jobo tanks, you can just get the 4x5 reels and put it any old jobo tube right? This would be really fantastic, I often also carry my press camera with me to the track and shoot a few rolls of 120roll while i'm there. Leaf shutter allows for fill flash at 1/500th, allows me to break up the harsh shadow on the face caused by the full face racing helmet. I'm assuming with a jobo setup, i could put in a few 35mm reels right along with 4x5 and roll film reels.

mikhailr · Nov 23, 2008

2F/2F said:
If you can afford it, a Jobo 3010 or 3006 with a manual roller base. It is far superior to anything else I have tried. It is especially useful for color, where chemicals are more expensive, more sensitive to oxidization and expiry, are reused more often than with b/w, and where constant agitation is not a drawback because you won't be doing stand development. The tank runs with only 210-350mL; very economical. I use 250mL per batch, one shot developer. That is less than a dollar's worth of C-41 developer per batch; about seven cents per sheet.

Will a Jobo Roller Base for Combo Tank http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/25524-REG/Jobo_J1509_Roller_Base_for_Combo.html do the job as "a manual roller base" quoted above? Will sizes of the Jobo Roller Base fit those of Jobo 3010. I didn't manage to find any info about their sizes.
And one more question. What does automatic processors' agitation algorithm look like? Is it just rotating or includes some more movements? In other words, can I provide proper agitation by hand while processing color 4x5" sheet films using Jobo 3010 and manual roller base and get good image quality?

Thank you, Mikhail.

Martin Aislabie · Nov 23, 2008

Mikhail, yes the manual roller base will work for the 1000, 2000 & 3000 series drums

It gets a bit tedious to manualy roll for the allocated time but it is not big deal

A heck of a lot more affordable than the big processors - but you will need a tempering bath for colour

Occasionaly and randomly alternate rolling direction

Mave fun

Martin

mikhailr · Nov 23, 2008

Thank you, Martin.

Mikhail.

SMBooth · Nov 24, 2008

Just to add to your choices, I use a old Paterson thermo print drum. fit 4 5x4 negs and hand roll it using the little crank handle.

Uhner · Nov 24, 2008

bdial said:
Finally there are btz tubes which are more or less black PVC pipe with caps. I can't find a link at the moment, but someone will post one, you can also search in here. Some folks roll their own with these, but you have to be careful, because not all black PVC is actually opaque.

Here you go:

Dead Link Removed

2F/2F · Nov 24, 2008

mikhailr said:
Will a Jobo Roller Base for Combo Tank http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/25524-REG/Jobo_J1509_Roller_Base_for_Combo.html do the job as "a manual roller base" quoted above? Will sizes of the Jobo Roller Base fit those of Jobo 3010. I didn't manage to find any info about their sizes.
And one more question. What does automatic processors' agitation algorithm look like? Is it just rotating or includes some more movements? In other words, can I provide proper agitation by hand while processing color 4x5" sheet films using Jobo 3010 and manual roller base and get good image quality?

Thank you, Mikhail.

That's the one.

It will work with Expert drums with the rollers turned outward, and the smaller drums with the rollers turned inward.

I would call up Freestyle if you want it, in order to support them over B and H. Also, I got mine off the shelf there for $25. B and H are charging twice as much!

If you ever want to use this method with one of the very long print drums, I would get two roller bases.

P C Headland · Nov 24, 2008

Another good option is the Paterson Orbital. This is like a "daylight tank". It can do up to four 4x5" / 9x12cm sheets, two 5x7" or one 8x10". Easy to load, and uses very little chemistry - as little as 100ml, although I tend to use aournd 150ml.

Venchka · Nov 24, 2008

Jobo 2551/2553 tank. Same tank, different name. The tank holds 1 to 3 2509 or 2509n reels for 4x5. It also holds 5 reels for 35mm or 3 reels for 120 (1 or 2 rolls on each reel) or 220 (1 roll on each reel). That's a lot of film.

For agitation: either the Uniroller or Beseler motorized bases. I have one of each. The Uniroller cost $18 and the Beseler came free with a car load of darkroom equipment.

SMBooth · Nov 24, 2008

Can somebody please explain how the Jobo 3010 works? Is it 5 separate tubes that each get its own solution or are the tubes slotted someway to allow the solution to flow freely through all the tubes.

Thanks
Shane

mikhailr · Nov 24, 2008

Uhner said:
Here you go:

Dead Link Removed

Many thanks for the link.
Reading the BTZS tubes manual I'm under the impression that the tubes are reccomended mostly for B&W photography.
Do anybody use them for color (C-41, E-6) photography? Are there any problems?
I understand the process will be rather tedious, but I more interested in image quality.

Thank you, Mikhail.

Venchka · Nov 27, 2008

Jobo 3010: 5 tubes. Each holds 1 or 2 sheets of film seperated by ribs running the length of the tubes. The tubes are shaped to promote liquid flowing over, behind & all around the film. The 3010 is used on it's side and continuously rotated. The lid slopes away from the tubes and liquid flows in and out as the tank rotates. Jobo says you can use as little as 210ml of liquid. I don't trust that. I use 500ml to 800ml depending on the number of sheets in the tank. The part that the tubes are molded in is seperate from the outer body. There are slots in the base to let water circulate around the tubes for temperature control. You need a Jobo processor or deep sink and manual rotation base to use that feature. My 3010 rides on a Uniroller or Beseler motor base on my kitchen counter. Temperature control for B&W is not a problem.

I hope this helped. By the way, loading the 3010 is utterly foolproof, fast & painless. The negatives come out evenly developed. One of those rare products that is better than it has to be and worth evey penny. Try to get one at a good price. The new price is silly high. Half of the new price is realistic.

2F/2F · Nov 27, 2008

Venchka said:
Jobo says you can use as little as 210ml of liquid. I don't trust that. I use 500ml to 800ml depending on the number of sheets in the tank.

I use 250 mL with no problems whatsoever.

Jobo says 210 mL min. right on the tank, but the part that most people miss is that they also say 350 mL MAX in the instructions.

dagabel · Nov 27, 2008

I use this method (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=30099) and it works like a charm for me. Just an old stainless steel tank and these "soft tubes" hold 4 sheets. I then process just like I do for 35mm and 120 - intermittent agitation and inversion.

Duane

Terrence Brennan · Nov 28, 2008

Yankee Tank

rshepard said:
It really depends on what developer you'll use and the method of developing. For non-pyro developers the Jobo and an expert tank (or a film tank) will work well. I use my Jobo for 120 roll film, but I use the Yankee tank with both 2-1/4x3-1/4 and 4x5 sheet film.

Ditto on the Yankee tank; I put it in a Patterson 4-1/2 x 6-1/2 tray when agitating; that way, any spilled solution ends up in the tray and not going down the drain. Periodically, while each chemical is in the tank, any of the spillage is poured back into the tank.

I also used a dab of silicone to permanently size the film holder for 4x5; otherwise, I found that I had too many problems when loading and unloading the tank.

Venchka · Nov 28, 2008

Minimum developer

2F/2F said:
I use 250 mL with no problems whatsoever.

Jobo says 210 mL min. right on the tank, but the part that most people miss is that they also say 350 mL MAX in the instructions.

I saw those number yesterday. I have also seen 1000ml max. for the 3010 on a different Jobo web page. I am currently using Xtol 1:3 and Rodinal 1:100. Kodak says 100ml and Agfa says 10ml per 80 sq.in. film. I know many people use less delveloper without incident. So far, I have been very daring and used 8ml of Rodinal + 800ml water per roll of 120 film. I generally tend to use more Xtol just to make the dilution numbers easy to handle. Example: 100ml Xtol + 300ml water for 4 sheets of 4x5 or less and 200ml Xtol + 600ml water for more than 4 sheets of 4x5.

Someday I may explore the real minimum amount of developer required. The problem is, how can you tell if the developer exhausted itself? Developer is cheap. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong on the high side.

"Day light" type tanks for 4x5

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