Darkroom Temp control: Ambeint

dwdmguy · Jun 22, 2009

Good morning to each of you.
Living in NJ we have pretty heavy temp fluxes. I'm having my Plumbing done now for my SS sink whereas I will use a Jobo ATL-2300 for both B/W and Color, C-41, perhaps E-6.

Now, it's in my insulated garage but still even with the insulation on 3 walls, (4th is my next door garage which I think is uninsulated) their is a wicked temp flux during the seasons etc., so I'm really worried about working in there, storing chems, even correctly, etc...

Any advice please? A stand alone air conditioner, portable? Even turning it on an hour before work does not help me considering the Storing of chem large bottles during the off times.

Oh, my sink will of a temp control panel so I'm ok with that. It's just the room temp I'm really worried about.
Thank you much for your help.
Tom

glbeas · Jun 22, 2009

So whats keeping you from adding insulation of some sort to that uninsulated wall? And how is the ceiling insulation? If you can find a small enough stand alone that it will not raise the humidity in the darkroom and rust everything it will work fine. An oversize unit will have such a short cycle it will shut off before the moisture can condense on the coils and be drained away. You will also need to think of heating so certain chems will not freeze and break the bottles or precipitate out.

dwdmguy · Jun 22, 2009

Thank you Gary.
All the walls are finished now, i.e., sheetrock and I don't know too much about the ceiling but it's below my bedroom so that must be a good thing.
What I do know is that there in the summer it is very hot and the winter very cold.
Will the bottle chems be ok between using a stand alone AC/Heating units or is this something I may have to consider having run all the time. The electric bill would be huge.
Thank you again.
t

VaryaV · Jun 22, 2009

Hi There - I know exactly what you are going through. I live in Florida and it has been 95-100 all week. I have an incredibly hot and humid climate to deal with and the winter does get into the occasional 20's. I have a very difficult time with climate control as you can imagine. My studio and d/r is a stand alone metal shed in the backyard. The building is built into 2 rooms. I had to insulate the entire structure behind the dry wall. I have no room in the house for storage of film/prints/cameras/lens etc. so everything is in the d/r side. Where the small area 10x12(?) is easier to control. I try to maintain a temp. of around 72-74. Moisture is my big problem. I have a window unit air conditioner which is caulked and sealed from light. I also have to keep a portable (and heavy) de-humidifier to remove moisture during the hurricane season - they both have to run at the same time when we get excessive rains. (ugh) In the winter I keep a portable heater I can move from side-to-side. I have to keep containers of damp-rid in all of the cupboards where I have the cameras/lenses stored. I have to constantly check them for mold. Chemicals, I try to mix to use. In winter I put all concentrates in the sink and keep warm with blankets. My summer water is 78 and I have to bring in ice. I do have a hot water heater but as I only have one faucet to the sink (should have put in 2) I usually just bring in gallon jugs of warm water in the winter. I do worry about fungus on my lenses. I have to dry my sink down after every use. Also, I recommend a water bath to keep chemicals at 68 in winter if you can get one cheap on ebay. Cockroaches are another problem I have encountered - they crawl in through the ceiling light fixtures, the a/c, and up through the drain. I need to mesh cover them.They ate my bellows on my C330 (a huge expense to fix) and I have to keep roach hotels behind and in through everything and corners. I keep hotels around my enlarger and other bellows cameras. Who would have thought about that one? In case you have critters. So many things to consider. We don't have basements in FL and I think it would be easier to control climate inside a preexisting structure.

Good luck with your endeavors and if you run across any tips let me know. CHEERS.

Maris · Jun 22, 2009

When I built my latest darkroom I decided that I would bite the financial bullet and get a really good air-conditioner and run it prodigally. After all I'm going to be in there for hundreds of hours a year, summer and winter, making decisions that involve lots of expensive light sensitive materials. If I feel uncomfortable or I really don't want to be in there then the work is a damn chore rather than a pleasure.

And don't forget the stereo system. It sure keeps the demons away during those long dark hours.

dwdmguy · Jun 22, 2009

Vara, wow you have your hands full. My goodness. What we dont do. And Maris, you too.That makes sense. Why invest in just a little and then, as Vara, put such valuable things into harms way and worry about it all the time. Takes away from the pleasure.
I think I'mgoing to begin with a big ol' honkin' portable AC unit. Then when my feet are more firmly on the ground I can fine tune.
Thank you so much.

Anscojohn · Jun 22, 2009

[Any advice please? A stand alone air conditioner, portable? Even turning it on an hour before work does not help me considering the Storing of chem large bottles during the off times.

Oh, my sink will of a temp control panel so I'm ok with that. It's just the room temp I'm really worried about.
Thank you much for your help.
Tom[/QUOTE]

******
An old refrigerator, running to keep temps at 68 F or thereabouts, should solve your paper and chemical problems and not draw too much electricity.

glbeas · Jun 22, 2009

Whats the possibilty of hooking into the HVAC of the rest of the house? Any ductwork close enough to reach? You would need output and intake ducting. Thats how my darkroom is fitted now, it's very near the downstairs unit in the basement and we had it hooked in when we replaced the downstairs HVAC.

Curt · Jun 22, 2009

When I built my latest darkroom I decided that I would bite the financial bullet and get a really good air-conditioner and run it prodigally.

Hello Maris, what air-conditioner did you choose for the darkroom? Here they were expensive until the last couple of years. Now they can be had for a hundred us dollars more or less to start. The portable ones are about three hundred. Did you put in a unit with a separate compressor outside?

Best,
Curt

mike c · Jun 23, 2009

I live in southern California with mild winters which is the best darkroom time I have. Summers are hot and dry,dust is a problem,got a room air purifier that works good.I put in a small wall mount air conditioner that does not cool chemicals unless it runs full time 24/7 that is to expensive I'd think so I'm shopping for a used refrigerator . My darkroom is insulated inside my partially insulated garage.

VaryaV · Jun 23, 2009

Maris said:
And don't forget the stereo system. It sure keeps the demons away during those long dark hours.

So true, my moods and success in processing are totally determined by what I have spinning. I especially love Coltrane for late Sat. nights in the wee hours or some German Leider Sun. mornings, with the rowdy stuff in between when my neighbors get out the power tools...... :rolleyes:

It is amazing how much ground has to be covered in setting up a work space. Interesting points you all bring up. I was thinking this morning how much I would like to move into a better neighborhood but I have so much love for my studio shed and d/r and the time invested into it - I can't leave it behind. It's like a little secret getaway while I am out there and I doubt that I would ever be able to have another one like it. So I stay. One more thing to consider.

I still need a little refrigerator in it but I am concerned about how much juice it will require considering I have an a/c running for 4-5 months. Does anyone know how much more?

fschifano · Jun 23, 2009

VaryaV said:
Hi There - I know exactly what you are going through. I live in Florida and it has been 95-100 all week. I have an incredibly hot and humid climate to deal with and the winter does get into the occasional 20's. I have a very difficult time with climate control as you can imagine. My studio and d/r is a stand alone metal shed in the backyard. The building is built into 2 rooms. I had to insulate the entire structure behind the dry wall. I have no room in the house for storage of film/prints/cameras/lens etc. so everything is in the d/r side. Where the small area 10x12(?) is easier to control. I try to maintain a temp. of around 72-74. Moisture is my big problem. I have a window unit air conditioner which is caulked and sealed from light. I also have to keep a portable (and heavy) de-humidifier to remove moisture during the hurricane season - they both have to run at the same time when we get excessive rains. (ugh) In the winter I keep a portable heater I can move from side-to-side. I have to keep containers of damp-rid in all of the cupboards where I have the cameras/lenses stored. I have to constantly check them for mold. Chemicals, I try to mix to use. In winter I put all concentrates in the sink and keep warm with blankets. My summer water is 78 and I have to bring in ice. I do have a hot water heater but as I only have one faucet to the sink (should have put in 2) I usually just bring in gallon jugs of warm water in the winter. I do worry about fungus on my lenses. I have to dry my sink down after every use. Also, I recommend a water bath to keep chemicals at 68 in winter if you can get one cheap on ebay. Cockroaches are another problem I have encountered - they crawl in through the ceiling light fixtures, the a/c, and up through the drain. I need to mesh cover them.They ate my bellows on my C330 (a huge expense to fix) and I have to keep roach hotels behind and in through everything and corners. I keep hotels around my enlarger and other bellows cameras. Who would have thought about that one? In case you have critters. So many things to consider. We don't have basements in FL and I think it would be easier to control climate inside a preexisting structure.

Good luck with your endeavors and if you run across any tips let me know. CHEERS.

I really think you should consider storing your cameras and lenses somewhere else. Those cockroaches, ants, and termites are persistent creatures. They'll be back. You can only slow them down. You cannot stop them.

VaryaV · Jun 23, 2009

Frank - you are absolutely right. I do. I am working on some kind of solution to store them in the house. Space is always an issue and there is never enough.

glbeas · Jun 23, 2009

VaryaV you should look at ammo boxes or pelican cases. Both have waterproof seals and therefore roachproof. Keep silica gel in it to further combat the roaches as they cannot survive dry conditions, also better for the lenses to avoid fungus.

dwdmguy · Jun 24, 2009

Anscojohn, That's Just what I'm going to do, thank you tons.

Anscojohn said:
[Any advice please? A stand alone air conditioner, portable? Even turning it on an hour before work does not help me considering the Storing of chem large bottles during the off times.

Oh, my sink will of a temp control panel so I'm ok with that. It's just the room temp I'm really worried about.
Thank you much for your help.
Tom

******
An old refrigerator, running to keep temps at 68 F or thereabouts, should solve your paper and chemical problems and not draw too much electricity.[/QUOTE]

dwdmguy · Jun 24, 2009

glbeas, thank you. That's just the way I want to go but it will put a strain on my existing conduit system now. I would LOVE however to put a HVAC unit, small, outside the room now and have it independent. But, what a overkill, when a portable would do. I wonder if it would save me money in the longrun.

glbeas said:
Whats the possibilty of hooking into the HVAC of the rest of the house? Any ductwork close enough to reach? You would need output and intake ducting. Thats how my darkroom is fitted now, it's very near the downstairs unit in the basement and we had it hooked in when we replaced the downstairs HVAC.

dwdmguy · Jun 24, 2009

Mike, I'm setting up the same way, with one big execption. I live in NJ ... wish I was there.....

mike c said:
I live in southern California with mild winters which is the best darkroom time I have. Summers are hot and dry,dust is a problem,got a room air purifier that works good.I put in a small wall mount air conditioner that does not cool chemicals unless it runs full time 24/7 that is to expensive I'd think so I'm shopping for a used refrigerator . My darkroom is insulated inside my partially insulated garage.

Maris · Jun 24, 2009

Curt said:
Hello Maris, what air-conditioner did you choose for the darkroom? Here they were expensive until the last couple of years. Now they can be had for a hundred us dollars more or less to start. The portable ones are about three hundred. Did you put in a unit with a separate compressor outside?

Best,
Curt

Airconditioner! Panasonic CS-E9FKR split system reverse cycle inverter system with air filtration and ion purification features. All up it cost me about $2000 including installation.

This unit is way too big for my 10 square metre darkroom but if I leave the darkroom door open and run the fan on high I can cool or heat the entire downstairs area of my house. Anyway, that is the excuse I gave myself for spending so much money.

Curt · Jun 24, 2009

Hi Maris that's the kind of system I was looking for, a split system, I'm tired of fitting the window units and want to move to a permanent setup.

Curt

Dave Pritchard · Jun 24, 2009

VaryaV said:
So true, my moods and success in processing are totally determined by what I have spinning. I especially love Coltrane for late Sat. nights in the wee hours or some German Leider Sun. mornings, with the rowdy stuff in between when my neighbors get out the power tools...... :rolleyes:

It is amazing how much ground has to be covered in setting up a work space. Interesting points you all bring up. I was thinking this morning how much I would like to move into a better neighborhood but I have so much love for my studio shed and d/r and the time invested into it - I can't leave it behind. It's like a little secret getaway while I am out there and I doubt that I would ever be able to have another one like it. So I stay. One more thing to consider.

I still need a little refrigerator in it but I am concerned about how much juice it will require considering I have an a/c running for 4-5 months. Does anyone know how much more?

If you operate a small refrigerator in a space already cooled by A/C, the refrigerator will not have to run very much to cool its interior. Also, new refrigerators are much more efficient than older ones. Get a cheap new refrigerator in preference over an old junker, if you want to save money on electricity.

bobwysiwyg · Jun 25, 2009

glbeas said:
Whats the possibilty of hooking into the HVAC of the rest of the house? Any ductwork close enough to reach? You would need output and intake ducting. Thats how my darkroom is fitted now, it's very near the downstairs unit in the basement and we had it hooked in when we replaced the downstairs HVAC.

This would be my first choice to at least investigate/price. Could be viewed as a plus should you ever sell/move. If you go this route, you have to make sure all the insulation and sealing is good. Consider installing a vertical duct on the input side with a damper so that cooled A/C air enters high, and warm air enters low.

Bob F. · Jun 25, 2009

Rather than spend money heating and cooling 24/7 you could store the chems and any other critical stuff indoors in plastic boxes (perhaps on wheels - a mobile toolbox might suit) and just bring the temperature to working levels as and when needed, plus perhaps just sufficient heat to keep the temperature above freezing in the winter.

dwdmguy · Jun 27, 2009

Can't thank you enough guys and gals. It's been just a huge help here.

jeroldharter · Jun 29, 2009

I would rather work in a cool darkroom (e.g. 60 degrees) than in a hot darkroom (e.g. >73 degrees). So get a good air conditioner, set the thermostat for 78 degrees and then crank it up for darkroom sessions in the summer. I assume that the "garage door" is not the only entrance and that it will stay closed. Might be cost effective to build a removable, insulated frame outside the door for energy efficiency. At the very least you would need an insulated garage door which is relatively expensive. I would make this room separate from the rest of the garage or dust will be a huge problem. If small enough, a simple electric oil heater might suffice as a heating source.

mike c · Jun 29, 2009

Just found a used frig. to put my paper in,works good.But the temp. is to low for chemicals,45 degs F can't get it to go higher. That is fine for water,beer and soda but some chemicals might freeze or separate I fear.Have not got the electric bill yet.

Mike

Darkroom Temp control: Ambeint

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