Darkroom - new or used?

Stephanie Brim · Mar 30, 2008

Trying to outfit a darkroom on a budget has brought me to this question: what should I buy new and what should I buy used? Paper and chemicals are obviously something I should buy new. Enlarger (or two) has been acquired. Lenses, lens boards, and negative carriers (if needed) will be bought second hand.

I thought about buying trays new for the simple fact that this way I could dedicate them to the certain chemicals without worrying about what was previously in them. I'm finally going to want a changing bag, mostly for changing out film in the field with my Crown, and I plan to pick up a new one from Freestyle when I put in my order for darkroom supplies. Tongs are generally cheap, so I'm going to pick up a couple sets of the plastic ones new.

I figured on picking up a safelight, timer, and other such things used.

Good plan? I know I'm asking a lot of questions and I thank you all for being patient.

Dave Miller · Mar 30, 2008

If it's any help all my darkroom equipment was brought second-hand with the exception of my RH Designs timer.

removed account4 · Mar 30, 2008

used is perfect

CBG · Mar 30, 2008

Used is fine and there are great prices everywhere. Old trays are fine, but any lingering worries about what was done in a tray previously can be obviated by a serious scrubbing with an abrasive kitchen / bathroom cleanser. Once you get back to the clean plastic surfaces, you are in awfully good shape. Most old trays are fine as is though.

C

PhotoJim · Mar 30, 2008

Buy what you can afford. If you can afford to get new everything, why not do it? However, this assumes you have a lot of money.

If you are at all under financial constraints, buy used. The values can be terrific.

If I were rich I'd buy precisely what I wanted, and get it all new, but I am not. (I am merely comfortably in the middle class.) Used stuff does me just fine, both for the darkroom and for my actual image-making. Precious little of my gear was purchased new.

Stephanie Brim · Mar 30, 2008

I hardly ever purchase anything new. The first new thing I've bought in a long time were the two rolls of Tri-X I got at a camera shop last weekend.

Nick Zentena · Mar 30, 2008

Small things if you can find them locally are fine used. But buying something like cheap used trays and then paying for shipping can end up working out more expensive then new. I forget who makes the trays I bought [Praff?] but new they were about the same price as used 11x14 trays but I bought them from a dealer then sold other things I needed [film,paper etc] so the trays didn't cost me anything extra for shipping.

Monophoto · Mar 30, 2008

Obviously, chemicals and paper have to be new. That doesn't rule out buying them from someone other than a dealer - just understand that storage conditions can have an impact on good they are. I picked up an unopened box of Portriga Rapid that way.

Trays are fine to buy used - especially if you can find them locally. Likewise things like graduates and tongs although those are relatively inexpensive. In fact, graduates can be free, or nearly so. You can find graduated kitchen measuring cups for next to nothing at garage sales. Hospitals routinely use disposable graduated plastic containers, and you can pick up whatever you need if you are or know a patient. And - don't laugh - urine containers from drug testing programs make fine graduates.

Timers are also commonly available in the used market. Gralab 300's are rugged and last a long time. It may be necessary to clean them up and perhaps refresh the phosphorescent paint on the hands. I would be a little more hesitant about sophisticated electronic timers unless I could test them for repeatability.

Tanks and reels are also available - tanks are not a problem, but look very carefully at stainless reels before you commit. Make sure that the two sides are absolutely parallel - if they have been dropped, they can lose their alignment and be a PITA to load.

Safelights are readily available used. If you have access to a photo flea market in your area, you can also pick up a few spare safelight filters - old but probably unused in their original packaging. Filters can fade over time and having a few spares could be helpful. By the way, I bought a used 5" round filter, and then made my own safelight from an empty 2-lb coffee can.

edz · Mar 30, 2008

Monophoto said:
Obviously, chemicals and paper have to be new.

Of course NOT. Many chemicals are best purchased on the surplus market.

That doesn't rule out buying them from someone other than a dealer - just understand that storage conditions can have an impact on good they are. I picked up an unopened box of Portriga Rapid that way.

That applies to all including dealers. I've seen loads of film being stored in shops under poor conditions.

Trays are fine to buy used - especially if you can find them locally. Likewise things like graduates and tongs although those are relatively inexpensive.

Plastic trays may be more trouble to clean than they are worth. What size trays does one need? Does one really need trays? What alternatives are there for paper? For sheet film? Once these questions are asked and answered the source of the materials should become obvious as come of the answers might call for materials that are no longer available new. No longer available new? The market has, more or less, declared darkroom gear as nothing more than obsolete garbage that somehow survived the dump (or headed there). What trades hands does so at marginal prices. The more professional, larger and heavier the gear often the cheaper the price. Who would purchase a new professional enlarger these days (when they can be had in mint condition for fractional pennies to the dollar)? The conclusion for many vendors has been: almost nobody. And so.. most have stopped making the gear--- Durst, for example, was until they terminated production the largest enlarger maker in the world.

In fact, graduates can be free, or nearly so. You can find graduated kitchen measuring cups for next to nothing at garage sales.

I'd instead suggest that one use glass beakers and for measuring smaller amounts use disposable plastic needle-free syringes (these can be purchased from a pharmacy for a few cents).

mgb74 · Mar 30, 2008

Stephanie Brim said:
I hardly ever purchase anything new. The first new thing I've bought in a long time were the two rolls of Tri-X I got at a camera shop last weekend.

Once-used Tri-X does not work very well. Don't ask me how I know.

Frankly, it seems pointless to buy most anything darkroom related new, given the low prices. But, if you're not in an area with a lot of used stuff, buying some things used could end up costing you more in shipping.

One thing I like to do is make sure I have enough different size trays so that I don't have to waste chemicals in too large a tray. Also, perhaps it makes sense to use old (once used) develop and fixer to "condition" a used tray if you fear it was used for the wrong chemical.

But, if you think about it, we are always switching from developer to stop bath to fixer and then back to developer with our film tanks. Granted, a good wash in between.

bdial · Mar 30, 2008

Trays and collections of stuff seem to be pretty common on Craigslist. Another source to check would be the leftovers at camera shops. Used trays that don't require extraordnary cleaning are not difficult to come by. VC filters if you don't have a dichroic enlarger would be good to buy new, as they do fade some in use.
Except for chemistry there is not a lot of reason to buy new for most stuff, especially full-price new.

ann · Mar 30, 2008

i posted something in the classified section earlier in the year with regard to changing bags, there are several still availble if interested.

ricksplace · Mar 30, 2008

From what I have seen, most everything needed for a darkroom can be obtained for next to nothing. Cheap tupperware-type containers for trays, measuring cups, etc. If you ask around at schools (colleges, universities) you might find them willing to GIVE you equipment if you will haul it away. (I got a Beseler 45 with 50,80,135 componons and four neg carriers and a few safelights for the sum total of $0)

ricksplace · Mar 30, 2008

Hey Stephanie.
I have a Paterson safelight with many spare bulbs, and an enlarger timer (Hauk) that you can have for the cost of shipping. PM me with an address and I'll see what the shipping will be.

Least I can do for a new mom.

Rick.

cotdt · Mar 30, 2008

i used some paper from the 1960s and it works perfectly. My chemicals are really ancient as well, but work perfectly.

mjs · Mar 30, 2008

Think about it from the perspective of stuff that wears out. Older, electro-mechanical timers may be inaccurate, either from long wear or from corrosion. It's odd but thermometers can become inaccurate over time as well. Safelight filters fade, introducing unexpected fog. Variable contrast filters also fade, on a fairly short time frame: I've heard as short as three years. That stuff I'd consider buying new, if possible. Note that Ilford often bundles stuff with paper; sometimes film, sometimes variable contrast printing filters: that can save money.

Mike

tommy5c · Mar 30, 2008

i have to say that i have compiled a complete darkroom setup, and a few cameras 98% used. the exception is a couple of measuring beakers and misc stuff. I have used a little ebay and a lot of craig's list. i suggest a constant vigil on anything like craig's list it in your community. i think that outside of film and chems I've only spent about a thousand dollars over the course of 4 years. this got me 5+ 4x5 enlargers, a door, trays, and a few cameras. the only problem I've had is finding money when i get a good deal. all of the stuff has worked great. I figure until this stuff is paying the bills, I'll keep buying used.
I suggest saving the money, and spending it on more film.

edz · Mar 30, 2008

mjs said:
It's odd but thermometers can become inaccurate over time as well.

Its "odd" because they don't become inaccurate over time. If a glass thermometer changes its values over time its a sure indication that its broken--- its how one checks them. I would suggest that there were tiny (perhaps hard to see) cracks (through impact). What, on the other hand, CAN change value are electronic thermometers but that does not matter since they should always be re-calibrated against a traceable reference (typically a good glass thermometer that itself was calibrated against a standard traceable to a national standards reference). Personally, I'd advice against an electronic thermometer.

edz · Mar 30, 2008

bdial said:
VC filters if you don't have a dichroic enlarger would be good to buy new, as they do fade some in use.

In today's marketplace for hardly more (often less) than the price of a new set of brand name filters (i.e. Ilford Multigrade) one can often purchase a colour head. This is especially true for older less integrated enlargers.

firecracker · Mar 30, 2008

ricksplace said:
From what I have seen, most everything needed for a darkroom can be obtained for next to nothing. Cheap tupperware-type containers for trays, measuring cups, etc.

In Japan what we call 100 yen stores that is the same as dollar stores in the U.S. are essential to find some darkroom items. I have bought some A-4 sized plastic trays (good for 8x10" prints), kitchen timers, measuring cups, gloves, etc, and they are 100 yen, about one U.S. dollar each...

Bob F. · Mar 30, 2008

Bought most of my stuff used apart from some s/s tongs and similar odds and sods. The stainless ones that spring closed are better than the plastic ones I have found. I was suspicious at first - thinking they would not grip well enough - but the plastic tips are very grippy (if that's a real word...) and work very well with both RC and fibre paper.

The few trays that needed cleaning responded to diluted household bleach. There are obviously stains that cannot be shifted that way but I've either been lucky or they are rare in practice.

Good luck, Bob.

Soeren · Mar 31, 2008

I have only one piece of equipment in my "darkroom" that I payed for, The paterson orbital processor and I only payed the postage. All my other equipment including a Meopta Axomat and a Durst 707 AC was given to me. Sadly I havn't found any source of free materials yet
Kind regards

Nicole · Mar 31, 2008

Used is pre-loved. That's a good thing. Film and chemicals and paper is just about all I buy new. Good luck with it all Stephanie.

edtbjon · Mar 31, 2008

I have to chime in too...
Nowadays there are many complete darkrooms (minus the room itself ) given away for free or a mere symbolic sum, often less if you promise to use it and not sell it on. If you know what kind of equipment you want, that $10000 enlarger can be had for a few hundred these days. These high quality wonders of mecanic will easily last for another lifetime. (I bought a complete darkroom for $1000 a couple of years ago. That gear, including a Leitz Focomat IIc and lots of other goodies had cost the original owner around eight to ten thousand $$$. The cost for the gear when new? In todays money, $30000...)
Most darkroom gear normally doesn't get more use and abuse than normal kitchen gear. As long as it looks good it usually works good too. Some rubber or plastic parts can go old, but these items are normally cheap anyhow.

//Björn

ricksplace · Mar 31, 2008

Hey Stephanie.
Thanks for the pm back. Your stuff is on the way. Here's what I sent: Two four reel nikkor stainless tanks, one with four 35mm reels, and one with two 120 reels (reels are nikkor and hewes), Paterson safe light with 6 extra bulbs, and a Hauk enlarger timer. I got all of this stuff for free so you can have it for free. I shipped it Canada Post, the cheapest way possible. I hope there is snow in Iowa. Those dogsleds Canada Post uses are a bugger to pull when the snow melts.

Don't bother reimbursing the shipping costs. Send me a print or two when you get your darkroom up and running. Enjoy!

Rick

Darkroom - new or used?

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