Darkroom for enlarging - How dark is dark enough?

ruby.monkey · Jun 25, 2014

Background: up 'til now I've developed black and white film in a daylight tank, and then scanned the results and processed the photos digitally. None of my photos have gone further than being posted on flickr; and while that approach has its benefits I'm really beginning to miss having a physical print to hold and savour away from the monitor. I've considered printing from digital files, but... I spend every working day and much of my leisure time on a computer and I really want to try a more 'old-fashioned' approach.

So... wet printing. I think I could set up a darkroom just for enlarging and developing prints, but how dark does it actually have to be? Absolutely pitch black? Or is a little diffuse light acceptable without harming a print? Reading Dr Croy's 'The Complete Art of Printing and Enlarging', I get the impression that dim light won't cause any damage, but has paper sensitivity changed enough since then that this would no longer be so?

With three children in the house it's difficult to find a dedicated space so I'd be looking to use my kitchen of an evening; it has two large window and a frosted glass exterior door, but there are no external lights shining directly in, nor any nearby streetlamps. At night the brightest illumination would be from a full moon.

So to recap, would I have to make the room absolutely lightproof? Or would it be sufficient simply to put up blinds in the windows and over the exterior door, and perhaps add a heavy curtain across the door to the rest of the house?

Thanks in advance for any advice and suggestions you may offer.

Kevin Caulfield · Jun 25, 2014

Really dark, like blacker than black. I am partly joking but partly serious.

eddie · Jun 25, 2014

In a situation similar to yours, I used blackout cloth, and velcro, to light proof a room. It worked fine for b&w printing. Using the velcro made set up/take down quick and easy.

Rick A · Jun 25, 2014

Your work area needs to be like the inside of the camera, no extraneous light. Cover windows and doors with black out material. I have a black drape velcroed to the frame around my door so it can be removed when I'm not using the dark room. I can use the room for loading and unloading film holders or my developing tanks. There is a small window in there with the same treatment, sometimes it's good to open the window for fresh air when I'm doing other work in my DR.

pdeeh · Jun 25, 2014

And after you've made it what you think is dark enough, sit in there for 20 minutes (not what seems like 20 minutes, but twenty full minutes) with the lights off at the brightest time of day ...

paul_c5x4 · Jun 25, 2014

My darkroom is (currently) a small box room approximately 8'x8'. Purchased a couple of pieces of blackout lining from a local shop that supplies fabrics for home furnishings and curtains - After cutting to size, a strip of self adhesive velcro was stuck around the edges (don't use sew-on as you will end up with a neat row of holes). The other half of the velcro strip is glued around the window and door frames so when I need to block out the light, the blackout cloth is easily fixed in place.

Other people have used heavy duty black polythene sheeting which is just as effective and cheap.

ic-racer · Jun 25, 2014

Paper is slower than film, but to expose and process a print it may be out in the open for quite a few minutes. The usual "safelight test" that one needs to perform before using a darkroom, tests for stray white light irrespective of the source.

If you do decide to print in a darkroom with stay white light you might as well start a few threads like these now
"Lack of contrast in prints, what to do..."
"Can only get Grade 3 with filters..."
"Prints all come out gray..."
"Help, I have tried six different film developers and my negatives still print all gray without contrast..."
"Broke my odd-shaped irreplaceable Magenta dichroic filter trying to clean it because prints are coming out gray..."
"Looking for S-Orthoplanar enlarging lens; prints are too gray..."
"Prints are too gray, help me modify my [perfectly functioning top-of-the-line] enlarger with duct tape and bailing wire"

railwayman3 · Jun 25, 2014

If you're serious about your photography and want to get the best results, total darkness (as suggested in earlier replies) is essential. And safelights need to be tested at the correct working distance with the particular paper to be used...it is not impossible for the filters to fade and cause mysteriously dull and grey prints (was caught out that way myself, before I knew better!).

pentaxuser · Jun 25, 2014

OP I am sure no-one means to put you off but I feel that some may have erred on the side of caution here.

Provided that you print at night, I suspect that you would get away with a curtain rail and heavy black drapes over the windows and door. That way conversion to a darkroom and restoration back into a kitchen is as quick and as easy as pulling curtains which is what you do at night anyway

The key I feel is thick drapes and ensuring that they go several inches beyond the door and windows. Diffuse night light has difficulties turning corners

The sitting in the room for 10-20 mins and needing to still see nothing might be required for film but not, I feel, printing

A former APUGer called Les McLean who know his stuff, tells of visits he used to make to a printer whose darkroom was in the basement with windows which allowed him to see the lower part of the street so very shady I assume but some daylight entered nevertheless . He had a dark red rubylith type covering on the windows but could still see if a customer had entered the shop so he could leave the darkroom to attend to the customer.

Your set-up with curtains and at night would be nowhere near as risky. Worth a try

pentaxuser

winger · Jun 25, 2014

While pentaxuser might be right, since you're new to enlarging, it really might be best to find the darkest space you can and make it darker. Like ic-racer posted, it will keep you from having to ask why your prints are too gray, etc… Why are you starting by choosing the kitchen? Do you have a basement room or a bathroom? Those are usually easier to make completely dark than a kitchen. Though the chemicals used are not truly nasty (plenty of info on apug about that aspect), I wouldn't be in a rush to use a food prep area for developing prints.
My darkroom is in my laundry room and there's just one window that I had to black out and the top of one wall (semi-finished basement). I used the black plastic that paper comes in and also bought a roll of thick plastic from B&H. It's all taped up with gaffer tape. But mine is always blacked out and doesn't need to be taken down. Check out the darkroom portraits thread to see if that gives you ideas for a better space to use or ways to make it really dark.

mickld · Jun 25, 2014

The easiest way to find out is to test it. You already have half the chemicals needed from your film processing. So

1. Buy some paper developer of the brand you intend to use.
2. Buy a small box of paper of the brand you intend to use (make it resin coated for the purposes of testing - much quicker to process).
3. Set up the room as dark as you can and have trays of developer, stop bath and fixer ready.
4. In the darkness (assuming you have not invested in a safelight yet), take a sheet of paper and place it face up in the open. Cover half the page with card or a book and place a couple of coins on the exposed part.
5. Wait for 15 mins. That's the hard part!
6. Develop the sheet of paper fully as if you were making a print (say, 1 min in dev, 10 secs in stop and 1 min in fixer).

At this point you can turn on the light. The sheet of paper will have been exposed for over 16 minutes by this stage. Now you can closely inspect the sheet to see if there are any obvious or subtly differences in tonality across the sheet. If you are happy it is equally white across the sheet then your darkroom is dark enough for practical purposes. And you tested this before investing in an enlarger or safelight.

After buying the safelight, its best to repeat the test in case the light is too close to your work area. But, I was surprised after attending a local darkroom course at how bright the room can be. I went straight out and bought a second safelight and tested my darkroom with the above steps. The second safelight has made a world of difference to me. Much less fumbling about.

Bob Marvin · Jun 25, 2014

My darkroom has a few small light leaks during daylight hours; I've never noticed any difference between prints made before or after it gets dark outside.

ruby.monkey · Jun 25, 2014

Thank you all. You've provided me with food for thought.

winger - the main bathroom is quite small and has no electricity, not even a shaver socket; more importantly it's also right next to one of the children's bedrooms, which means that any noise will disturb the little monster. There is no cellar, and it'll be a while before I have a suitably large out-building; and as far as I know there are no commercial darkrooms near enough for my needs. The second bathroom is en-suite, which makes the noise problem worse. Given that the only time I will realistically have to work will be after everyone else has gone to bed, the kitchen is pretty much the only workspace available (it's where I develop film at the moment).

mickld - I like your practical approach. I'll try the experiment soon.

Mark_S · Jun 25, 2014

Ruby

The darkroom can never be too dark, but you can get away with a bit of light in there. In terms of temporary darkrooms, I used to have a temporary darkroom which was in a laundry room. I had a stainless sink which lay across the top of the washer/dryer and drained into a laundry sink. It was a challenge to keep it completely dark in there - there was a door with a big glass window in it. I attached rubylith to the window so that light that did leak through the curtain blocking the window was safe. This works for printing but not for film. For film I waited until after dark.

My suggestion is to get it as dark as you can without going crazy, and then test it for darkness. I test by setting up the chemicals that I am going to be using, then take a sheet of paper, and put it on the baseboard of the enlarger with a coin on the paper. Leave it for 15 or 20 minutes and then develop the paper - if you can see the outline of the coins, then you have more work to do to get the room darker, otherwise, you are good to go. To test your safelight, do the same but with the safelight on.

pentaxuser · Jun 25, 2014

It seems to me that provided all foodstuffs are in cupboards and that you empty the trays used for chemicals after your session and then wipe the work surface areas where the trays have been you'll be fine.

Of course you may have come to this conclusion yourself. With running water, a sink and quite a bit of work-surface space a kitchen with sensible precautions isn't a bad place to set up a temporary darkroom in my opinion.

Lets us know how it all goes

pentaxuser

removed account4 · Jun 25, 2014

my darkroom has light leaks around the ceiling
and even thought i installed black out material and
a drop ceiling years ago to keep the dust down ..
it is still a little bit of light.
it hasn't affected my film ( i process in open trays )
or my prints. and years ago i processed film in my father in law's basement
in a moonlit window at night and the film wasn't affected either ...

good luck with your darkroom !
john
(my experiences might not be typical)

MattKing · Jun 25, 2014

Bob Marvin said:
My darkroom has a few small light leaks during daylight hours; I've never noticed any difference between prints made before or after it gets dark outside.

Same for me.

And one wall of my bathroom/darkroom is a large mirror.

For printing, it is relatively easy to ensure that any light leaks are neither intense enough nor directionally problematic.

For film, you have to be more careful, but in my experience loading at night without turning on the lights in the other rooms that are closest to the darkroom satisfies the requirements.

Testing using your eyes can be misleading, because our eye/brain system is really, really flexible and sensitive.

A test that compares a print done in really dark conditions with a print done in easily established conditions with a fixed out, unexposed sheet of paper (for the highlight tones) will tell you a lot.

tkamiya · Jun 25, 2014

Amazingly enough, it doesn't have to be THAT dark to make prints.

My first darkroom was in a closet. I get in and I could see my hands without an adjustment period. I didn't see any fogging.
My second darkroom was in a bathroom. I get in it and after 30 seconds or so, I could see my hands. Prints were fine.
My current darkroom is in a room. I get in it and after 5 minutes, I could barely see my hands. It's fine.

We all have to deal with limitations. While not perfect, my first two "dark" rooms worked just fine for my needs. What I was careful with, was to minimize opening my stash of paper, so I don't fog my stock. Set it up fairly quickly, expose it, and process it right away. Again, it worked fine.

Of course, in my current darkroom, I take my time and concentrate on doing it well, rather than fast.

cliveh · Jun 25, 2014

I think you may get away with it, but you will need a safe light so you can see what you are doing.

Bob Marvin · Jun 25, 2014

Well, yes. Enough light to see what you are doing WITHOUT a safelight would be far TOO much.

pdeeh · Jun 25, 2014

pentaxuser said:
It seems to me that provided all foodstuffs are in cupboards and that you empty the trays used for chemicals after your session and then wipe the work surface areas where the trays have been you'll be fine.

quite true, all my chemicals are stored and mixed in my kitchen, and it hasn't done me any haaaarrrgghhh......

[thud]

Sirius Glass · Jun 25, 2014

Dark enough to not fog the paper.

tkamiya · Jun 25, 2014

Bob Marvin said:
Well, yes. Enough light to see what you are doing WITHOUT a safelight would be far TOO much.

Well, that would be logical. But I'm looking at a print I made under those conditions and white is absolutely white.

While I would not purposely create this kind of imperfect environment, I also would rather not discourage OP from trying only because perfect darkness is unobtainable or unreasonable in his present situation.

Besides, fun factor, amazement, and satisfaction from the process is the same.

In my second generation bathroom "dark" room, I used cardboard to block windows and I did it only at night. In my current darkroom, I use 2 layers of "contractor's cleaning bag" from Home Depot. It's been fine for 3+ years.

Ken Nadvornick · Jun 25, 2014

Sensory depravation perfectly dark is my own preference. That way I never ever need to worry about it as a possible source of error. It simply cannot be a contributing factor to anything gone awry.

For example, I'm loading my 8x10 film holders, an open box of HP5+ on the counter top. The phone rings. I answer and the call takes 30 minutes. Later, after exposure and processing, I discover the negatives are fogged. Where to start looking for the culprit? Well, wherever it happened, I know for a fact it didn't happen in the darkroom, no matter how long that open box of film sat there. So no need to waste time testing. That possibility is automatically eliminated.

And just for grins, someone earlier mentioned that a darkroom can never be too dark. Since dark is a binary condition defined as the absence of light (the logical inversion, anything not dark, being merely varying degrees of dim light), then that statement is by definition both strictly and elegantly true. Albeit, probably not in the original sense intended by the author.

Ken

polyglot · Jun 25, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
Dark enough to not fog the paper.

This. Seriously - run a safelight test with some paper and a handful of coins. Make sure your darkroom gives at least 15 or 30 minutes of "safety", if it doesn't then you need to reduce the light level. If it does, then get to printing!

If there's moonlight or streetlights and you have a window, that's definitely not dark enough. If any appliances have LEDs on them, it's not dark enough (duct tape fixes that). However you can make blockout curtains pretty easily and tape them to all of your windows and that should be sufficient. Don't forget to put door-snakes (draft excluders) down to stop light getting under the doors. Beware some tapes that stick very well can mar window-frames, but some tapes (green painters' masking tape) will leave NO residue if removed within 5 days so that might be more family friendly, but they're less sticky.

My darkroom is the laundry. It has about 2 square metres of external windows which I blockout with heavy cloths that velcro onto the window frames. I stuck self-adhesive hook-tape on the window frames and sewed loop-tape on the blockout cloths; they just slap up on the window and voila, instant light-tightness. I rip them down once done and it goes right back to being a laundry except that there's a Jobo and enlarger taking up all the bench space

Darkroom for enlarging - How dark is dark enough?

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