Darkish paper edges

nostalgix · Aug 7, 2024

Hello,

I just opened my first box of Ilford multigrade paper version five (V) and noticed a dark shadow on the edges of the paper after processing it. When I hold it into brighter light it disappears. The paper does not seem to be fogged in general.
Any idea what might be the reason? I noticed that the paper seems to be thinner than the version four paper I used before. Or do I need to fix it longer to get rid of that effect?

Best regards,
Arvid

koraks · Aug 7, 2024

Could you post a photo that illustrates the problem, please? I find it hard to imagine exactly what you're seeing.

nostalgix said:
I noticed that the paper seems to be thinner than the version four paper I used before. Or do I need to fix it longer to get rid of that effect?

Thickness of the paper evidently is not affected by fixing, so I imagine that you mean something else than the physical thickness of the paper when you mention the paper seems 'thinner'. What do you mean exactly?

nostalgix · Aug 7, 2024

koraks said:
Could you post a photo that illustrates the problem, please? I find it hard to imagine exactly what you're seeing.

I tried to capture what I am seeing. The first picture is when the paper is a bit lifted so the light from the window does not shine on it directly.

And the second is with the paper lying flat on the table so the light hits it. Here the paper edge and corner looks white. On the image above it looks a bit shabby and dark.

koraks said:
Thickness of the paper evidently is not affected by fixing, so I imagine that you mean something else than the physical thickness of the paper when you mention the paper seems 'thinner'. What do you mean exactly?

No, sorry, what I meant was that if that dark shadow look on the paper edges might get lost when fixing longer.
The description of the thinner feel was indeed on the physical thickness. I haven't looked it up if that information is available at Ilford's side, but to me it seems that the multigrade paper in version 5 is thinner than version 4.

koraks · Aug 7, 2024

Maybe what you're referring to is just the effect of optical brightening agents, which make the paper look whiter if UV light hits it. Most RC paper bases have OBA's. I don't know if Ilford uses OBA-enhanced base; you might want to ask them. If you mean the faint shadow along the extreme edges of the paper: frankly, I think we're just looking at the shadow cast by a slightly curved upwards edge of the paper in combination with light hitting the paper from the side.

Weird artefacts around the extreme edges of the paper can occur with RC papers if they're subjected to excessively long wet times or an hour or longer. However, this tends to be paired with physical anomalies along the edges where the PE lining starts to delaminate from the base (especially visible when the prints are still wet). I don't see that on your print edges.

All considered it's a very faint/subtle effect; it may help if you manage to find a better way to photograph it. Sorry to be difficult about it; some of these things just don't convey very well on a computer monitor...

ic-racer · Aug 7, 2024

I have only seen that with old or expired paper.

nostalgix · Aug 7, 2024

koraks said:
Weird artefacts around the extreme edges of the paper can occur with RC papers if they're subjected to excessively long wet times or an hour or longer. However, this tends to be paired with physical anomalies along the edges where the PE lining starts to delaminate from the base (especially visible when the prints are still wet). I don't see that on your print edges.

The paper hasn't been in the water for more than ten minutes. But I thought that the shadows might get lost after the paper is completely dry... But after almost a week I can still see it.

koraks said:
All considered it's a very faint/subtle effect; it may help if you manage to find a better way to photograph it. Sorry to be difficult about it; some of these things just don't convey very well on a computer monitor...

No problem. I will try to figure out later how to take a better shot of it.

nostalgix · Aug 7, 2024

ic-racer said:
I have only seen that with old or expired paper.

To be honest the paper is about three years old. Stored cool and dry like all the other paper I have here. It's the freshest paper I have at the moment. And I only see that effect on this one. I have old Orwo paper that might be more than thirty or forty years old. That has this overall fogged grey tone.

koraks · Aug 7, 2024

nostalgix said:
the paper is about three years old

Ahh, I see. Well, in that case, I'd put my money on that bring the cause. RC paper often doesn't age well.

nostalgix · Aug 7, 2024

koraks said:
Ahh, I see. Well, in that case, I'd put my money on that bring the cause. RC paper often doesn't age well.

OMG, I hadn't had any issues like that before. I have older Ilford RC paper which had already been opened and the lying around a couple of years. I hope that's only an issue with that box.

Pieter12 · Aug 7, 2024

How are you processing it? I have had paper pick up black edges in a slot-processor. Also, have you tried bleaching the affected areas?

otto.f · Aug 8, 2024

The quesion to ask is, why would it be caused by something OP did wrong?

Philippe-Georges · Aug 8, 2024

Darkroom safelight?

nostalgix · Aug 8, 2024

Pieter12 said:
How are you processing it? I have had paper pick up black edges in a slot-processor. Also, have you tried bleaching the affected areas?

In trays. I have used other (older) paper a few days before without any problems.

otto.f said:
The quesion to ask is, why would it be caused by something OP did wrong?

I wouldn't deny it, but at the moment I have no clue what might be wrong.

Philippe-Georges said:
Darkroom safelight?

Same light I used with all other paper, too. Didn't move it or change the location of enlarger or trays.
I just did some kind of safelight test before because I got a red led torch to brighten the enlarger color head scale. I wanted to make sure that I don't fog the paper. But in the end I didn't use it in that session because I didn't do split grade and so I hadn't to change the grade with paper lying already under the enlarger.

Saganich · Aug 8, 2024

I've turned the room lights on briefly before securing the black bag of paper back into the tri-tray box and the result was some minor edge exposure not so dissimilar to what you posted.

nostalgix · Aug 8, 2024

Saganich said:
I've turned the room lights on briefly before securing the black bag of paper back into the tri-tray box and the result was some minor edge exposure not so dissimilar to what you posted.

Hmmmm... I really have no idea how that might have happened here. I am away from the safelight and facing the opposite direction. And I only pull out the sheet I like to use, wrap the black bag again and close the box.

Darkish paper edges

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