damages in old negs

[veke]

Hi! I have noticed that some large format negs have a brownish yellowish darkish" area in the middle area of the neg. When enlarging that area is visible lighter than the rest of the photo. What causes that damage? Is there a way to get rid of this, wash and fix? And the final question, if I wash and fix those in a tank, how to dry negs that are large, say 10x15, 13x18 cm´s ? Those do not have small holes on the sides where I could hang them (as you perfectly know, sorry).

 

[polyglot]

You didn't fix your negs properly when you developed them and now the leftover halides are starting to convert to metallic silver. Re-fixing them now will help to prevent further degradation but will not help with the existing additional density.

To dry LF negs (4x5 in my case), I hang them by the corner using metallic bulldog clips - the black & silver things used to clip sheafs of paperwork together.

 

[railwayman3]

I was just going to reply along the same lines as polyglot.....my copy of the 1950's "Dictionary of Photography" says "the principal causes of fading of negatives and prints are insufficient fixation and insufficient washing", going on to say that it's the sulphur compounds in the fixer which causes the formation of yellow/brown silver sulphides, as in sepia toning.
Also "where much coal is burnt, and particularly in large towns, the sulphur compounds in the atmosphere will in time attack the image"....similar to the sulphur compounds in non-archival paper and filing materials ?

 

[veke]

thank you, sirs. I didn´t develop those negs in the first place, a poor consolation but still. Yes, I thought that there has been something wrong when developing the negs and now the consequesnces have started to appear. The bad news is that those damages can´t be rescued anymore.
I "googled" the bulldog clips, I didn´t think of those. Thank you for that advice. I try to figure out also something smaller (less expensive), there is not much empty film base where to attach those clips, perhaps 2 millimetres at both ends ( some negs are 6x6 and 6x7 cm´s). As I don´t have those clips in my hands now I can´t test if they hold their grip on the wet film base. But you, polyglot, certainly have experience with those, and they will do perfectly.

One thing. I made enlargements and could produce quite decent results by giving more light to those lighter areas. Usually 3-4 times more exposure, using a mask to cover the good area. Most of the details became visible but the border between the correct neg and the damaged area is clear. I have not the skills to get rid of that. Byt, anyway, there are details also under the "brownish" area of the neg.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

You could always use the 'alternative' method, if the negatives are important, in order to 'doctor' seamlessly the areas that are affected. Then new negatives can either be made with a film recorder (www.dr5.com offers this service, for example), or you could make 'alternative' method negatives.
While I will probably be slapped on the wrists for mentioning it here, it's probably your most economical route to rescuing the negatives.

Alternatively, you can do something very time consuming. Print the negatives so that the parts that are too bright print normally, making the rest of the print too dark. Then use bleach to tone back the areas that are too dark.
Bruce Barnbaum did this with a negative that was damaged, then rephotographed the print in order to have an undamaged negative. Took weeks, but it is an alternative.

Or fine tune your masking.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

If you can mask the stain with a filter or filter pack, you can re-photogragh and make copy negatives. You may even be able to print using a same-color-as-the-stain mask and reduce the defect in the resulting print significantly. You'd likely be better off with graded paper, since a yellow mask will result in a low-contrast print, or, if you use a yellow mask in conjunction with magenta filtration, result in longer printing times (this latter would be worth a try imo anyway).

Alternately a combination of judicious burning and bleaching may be the best way to get a good print.

BTW, do refix and wash the old negatives to keep them from degrading further.

Best,

Doremus

 

[polyglot]

You can buy the bulldog clips in quite small (10mm) sizes, and they will happily grip the last 2mm of wet emulsion, especially if you rough up the jaws with sandpaper or form points on their corners with pliers. The other (perhaps better for small film pieces) option is serrated alligator clips used for small electrical connections.

 

[veke]

Good mornig, with thanks.

Yes, good ways to try. There are about 50-70 of those damaged negs, too many for individual doctoring. But if there are 2-4 irreplaceable negs I will try my best. Sometimes time, the trouble and strife, are not an issue when it comes to a unique negative many people are waiting for to see in their "original condition." No paper copies exist, unfortunately.

I use multigrade papers and I have the possibility to use filters, yellows to give softness and magenta to give contrast. Varying those and using multiple exposures might give a pretty decent result. Then those people in the pics, about a dozen, can hang on their walls really valuable enlargements. That is a great reward for me, as a matter of fact it is the only reward to me. Perfectly enough.

Yes, I will try those clips, any sort that are available in bookstores and other shops. "If nothing is successful, then somehow."

Have a great day!