Damaged Negs - Literature

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 17, 2007

Hi all,

I am normally a film shooter, but may have to take the plunge in working digitally with a batch of negs soon due to having some difficulty with markings all over them.
I came back from an outing on the North Coast of Lake Superior with, among other films, eight rolls of Agfa APX25. I had tested one roll before I left there and it worked perfectly fine in Sprint developer.
When I came back I developed one roll in my favorite developer, Pyrocat-MC (or HD or whatever, they're all awesome), and found some marks on the film that exactly correspond to the pattern of the paper backing the film is in.
I tried Sprint, Rodinal, and Xtol too, and it's the same thing. So here I am with some of the best work I've ever produced and the film pooped out on me.
Next step is to buy a scanner, I'm opting for the Epson V700, and re-touch these using Photoshop, and eventually produce new negatives.

Do I best get an inkjet printer and print new negs, or do I send the files to someone like Dr5 and have them make new negs for me (I believe they offer that service)?

Also, I would appreciate knowing what literature I best immerse in before I start doing this.
I should mention that I will start working in color soon, and have decided to do that digitally, but that for b&w my heart is with wet darkroom printing and developing, probably always will. This is more of an emergency fix that I'm trying to reasonably fix.

Very thankful for help and suggestions in this, for me, very disheartening dilemma.

- Thomas

donbga · Sep 17, 2007

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Hi all,

I am normally a film shooter, but may have to take the plunge in working digitally with a batch of negs soon due to having some difficulty with markings all over them.
I came back from an outing on the North Coast of Lake Superior with, among other films, eight rolls of Agfa APX25. I had tested one roll before I left there and it worked perfectly fine in Sprint developer.
When I came back I developed one roll in my favorite developer, Pyrocat-MC (or HD or whatever, they're all awesome), and found some marks on the film that exactly correspond to the pattern of the paper backing the film is in.
I tried Sprint, Rodinal, and Xtol too, and it's the same thing. So here I am with some of the best work I've ever produced and the film pooped out on me.
Next step is to buy a scanner, I'm opting for the Epson V700, and re-touch these using Photoshop, and eventually produce new negatives.

Do I best get an inkjet printer and print new negs, or do I send the files to someone like Dr5 and have them make new negs for me (I believe they offer that service)?

Also, I would appreciate knowing what literature I best immerse in before I start doing this.
I should mention that I will start working in color soon, and have decided to do that digitally, but that for b&w my heart is with wet darkroom printing and developing, probably always will. This is more of an emergency fix that I'm trying to reasonably fix.

Very thankful for help and suggestions in this, for me, very disheartening dilemma.

- Thomas

Thomas,

If your intent is to produce optical enlargements with an enlarger printing inkjet negatives isn't the way to go. At one time there were service beureaus that could produce negatives from digital files but I can't recall who they are right now. Perhaps someone else can chime in for those sources.

Don

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 17, 2007

Hi Don,

I would consider contact printing as a viable option too, but I don't print alt style yet, it would be silver gelatin, either standard or lith.
This may get me into alt printing eventually, maybe pt/pd, with the possibility of enlarged negatives. Is that a better option for my situation and printing my own inkjet negs?

- Thomas

Don Bryant said:
Thomas,

If your intent is to produce optical enlargements with an enlarger printing inkjet negatives isn't the way to go. At one time there were service beureaus that could produce negatives from digital files but I can't recall who they are right now. Perhaps someone else can chime in for those sources.

Don

rorye · Sep 17, 2007

Hi Thomas,
I saw the Temperence image with the lines, and I feel your pain. I had a very similar problem with a batch of Rollei 25 a couple of months ago. You might try scanning, retouching and trying www.newlab.com for a neg output. I've had great luck with that.
Good luck, I'm looking forward to seeing some more from your trip!
Rory

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 17, 2007

Hi Rory,
$65 for an MF neg... I've got 96 frames to re-do. You do the math... LOL When I'm a millionaire I'll consider it. Thanks though for the suggestion, it's nice to see there are options.
- Thomas

Anonymous · Sep 17, 2007

Thomas,

I don't know how extensive the damage is to your negatives since I have not seen the print that you posted. If it were me, I would begin by trying to scan and enlarge the negatives and then see if you can do the necessary retouching in PS. Perhaps someone you know has a scanner that you could try for the initial trial efforts to save spending money for a scanner at this point.

If the retouching is successful then I think that I would aim for a contact print off the enlarged negatives and pt-pd as the output.

You might check will Bill Schwab, Clay Harmon, Kerik, or Sandy King on this since all seem to have extensive experience with enlarged negatives.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Good luck to you.

Bob Carnie · Sep 17, 2007

I you get good scans and can work out the PS retouch, you can send a file to me to get a digital fibre print. This may work for you unless you want to do all the printing yourself, then you may be looking at a lvt negative output for enlarging purposes, I am not sure who does the best output negs but others here may know. I think Dave at DR5 does this service as suggested.

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Hi all,

I am normally a film shooter, but may have to take the plunge in working digitally with a batch of negs soon due to having some difficulty with markings all over them.
I came back from an outing on the North Coast of Lake Superior with, among other films, eight rolls of Agfa APX25. I had tested one roll before I left there and it worked perfectly fine in Sprint developer.
When I came back I developed one roll in my favorite developer, Pyrocat-MC (or HD or whatever, they're all awesome), and found some marks on the film that exactly correspond to the pattern of the paper backing the film is in.
I tried Sprint, Rodinal, and Xtol too, and it's the same thing. So here I am with some of the best work I've ever produced and the film pooped out on me.
Next step is to buy a scanner, I'm opting for the Epson V700, and re-touch these using Photoshop, and eventually produce new negatives.

Do I best get an inkjet printer and print new negs, or do I send the files to someone like Dr5 and have them make new negs for me (I believe they offer that service)?

Also, I would appreciate knowing what literature I best immerse in before I start doing this.
I should mention that I will start working in color soon, and have decided to do that digitally, but that for b&w my heart is with wet darkroom printing and developing, probably always will. This is more of an emergency fix that I'm trying to reasonably fix.

Very thankful for help and suggestions in this, for me, very disheartening dilemma.

- Thomas

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 17, 2007

Hi Donald,

thank you for your suggestions. Yeah, I'm pretty bummed. Fortunately I have a lot of rolls and sheets that look good, that were not part of this batch.

Good to see you somewhere again!

- Thomas

Donald Miller said:
Thomas,

I don't know how extensive the damage is to your negatives since I have not seen the print that you posted. If it were me, I would begin by trying to scan and enlarge the negatives and then see if you can do the necessary retouching in PS. Perhaps someone you know has a scanner that you could try for the initial trial efforts to save spending money for a scanner at this point.

If the retouching is successful then I think that I would aim for a contact print off the enlarged negatives and pt-pd as the output.

You might check will Bill Schwab, Clay Harmon, Kerik, or Sandy King on this since all seem to have extensive experience with enlarged negatives.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Good luck to you.

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 17, 2007

Hi Bob,

the goal for me is always to print everything myself. If I ever get murals ordered, I will certainly use your services since I can't print very large from my darkroom.

I appreciate your suggestion a lot.

- Thomas

bob carnie said:
I you get good scans and can work out the PS retouch, you can send a file to me to get a digital fibre print. This may work for you unless you want to do all the printing yourself, then you may be looking at a lvt negative output for enlarging purposes, I am not sure who does the best output negs but others here may know. I think Dave at DR5 does this service as suggested.

donbga · Sep 17, 2007

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Hi Bob,

the goal for me is always to print everything myself. If I ever get murals ordered, I will certainly use your services since I can't print very large from my darkroom.

I appreciate your suggestion a lot.

- Thomas

Hi Thomas,

I wouldn't recommend the Epson V700 or 750 as the best scanner to use to get optimum scans. Short of doing drum scans your best bet is to get a dedicated scanner such as a Nikon 9000.

You can repair most types of imperfections with PS but unless you are a seasoned PS user there will be quite a learning curve.

As for producing silver gelatin contact prints from inkjet negatives you may or may not be satisfied with the results. Most likely you will see some evidence of the substrate grain and printer dither in the print. Any of the new Epson printers of x880 series including the 3800 may be good enough for silver gelatin prints but that also depends on what you will accept as passable quality.

Alt prints such as palladium or platinum are a different story. Very smooth results can be had using quite a few different printers.

All in all if you are not experienced using a digital work flow to make wet process prints you have a long steep learning curve ahead of you. Once you learn it isn't terribly difficult but getting to a high level of proficiency and quality will require persistence of effort and dedication of time and money.

Don

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 17, 2007

Thanks Don.

I contacted Dr.5 and it seems he is much more reasonable with prices of burning film, so I'll give his services a whirl.
I've heard some outstanding reports in regards to the V700 scanner, and I need a flatbed to scan 4x5 negs. You're right. I've started looking into what a digital workflow would cost me, and it's better for me to just bite the bullet and have the new negs made.
Like everything else, I think it'll be a slowly learned technique with digital negatives, but hopefully well worth it. It took me five years to get me to above average photographer, I am under no illusions I would quickly adapt to a digital work flow.

I should say that I'm quite good at re-touching and repairing files, so that part will be the easy bit...

Thanks for your suggestions and thank you for being so honest and straight about it.

- Thomas

Don Bryant said:
Hi Thomas,

I wouldn't recommend the Epson V700 or 750 as the best scanner to use to get optimum scans. Short of doing drum scans your best bet is to get a dedicated scanner such as a Nikon 9000.

You can repair most types of imperfections with PS but unless you are a seasoned PS user there will be quite a learning curve.

As for producing silver gelatin contact prints from inkjet negatives you may or may not be satisfied with the results. Most likely you will see some evidence of the substrate grain and printer dither in the print. Any of the new Epson printers of x880 series including the 3800 may be good enough for silver gelatin prints but that also depends on what you will accept as passable quality.

Alt prints such as palladium or platinum are a different story. Very smooth results can be had using quite a few different printers.

All in all if you are not experienced using a digital work flow to make wet process prints you have a long steep learning curve ahead of you. Once you learn it isn't terribly difficult but getting to a high level of proficiency and quality will require persistence of effort and dedication of time and money.

Don

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 18, 2007

Example

Here is an example of the banding that occurred from the paper backing of the film. I'm so irritated with this!

We live and learn.

Thank you all for your very kind suggestion. It's very nice of you to take time!

- Thomas

Ike · Sep 18, 2007

Thomas, I'm in Minnetonka and your more than welcome to use my scanner if you want to scan a few and see what you can do. I have a flextight precision II. I would think you could definitely contact print inkjet negatives using Lith although the learning curve to calibrate your negatives would be quite large if you weren't going to continue to use the process.
Ike

Damaged Negs - Literature

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