Damaged film (again)

naugastyle · May 7, 2016

Thanks to those of you who answered my query about film damage a few weeks back (the thread that ended up being about static discharge on film). I had never seen anything like that before! And now, I have another issue I've never come across before, after developing countless rolls since I was in high school! I've had trouble finding similar image examples online.

What is this?? Is it a case of uneven development? These are from different rolls developed in the same tank. I did nothing different than usual. It's not on every frame, and of course the problem is a bit different between rolls. The only time I've had some slight damage from agitation before was in getting distracted and not agitating consistently, but the effect was different--sort of faint streaks coming down from each sprocket hole. The first two images are from the same roll, which only has one smaller example of a bright streak like in the third image.

MattKing · May 7, 2016

Please show us the negatives, not scans.

And remind us about which equipment you used, what chemicals and what procedures.

Jim Jones · May 7, 2016

It might be caused by a between-the-lens shutter that wasn't completely closed before or after the sample photos.

pbromaghin · May 8, 2016

What camera?

mnemosyne · May 8, 2016

Agree it doesn't look like a processing problem, more like a light leak. What camera?

MattKing · May 8, 2016

Your earlier thread referred to an ON-2n. If that is correct, would check the light seals.

Xmas · May 8, 2016

Drop the film in fresh fixer immediately if they change wash properly you may be able to scan and print.

You have lost nothing if you do this.

Be nice if you scanned the film and rebates and presented as negative.

Doremus Scudder · May 8, 2016

If the scans are a faithful representation of what if on the negatives, this is a light strike, not a processing error. Check your camera seals and your film handling. The only other thing it could possibly be is unfixed areas on the film, but from the patterns of the defects I highly doubt it.

Doremus

naugastyle · May 8, 2016

Apologies! I didn't realize until your comments that this may have been explained in an unclear fashion. Attached is the negative scan.

After reviewing again, there is only one frame out of 36 from the top roll that has a similar look to the damage on the bottom roll.

Yes, it's an OM-2N. I don't think it's a light leak because I've been shooting it a lot for a project. This is the sequence:

April 12 - shoot Arista Premium 400 @ 1600
April 15th or 16th - dev in XTOL 1:1 - no problem
April 23 - shoot Arista Premium 400 @ 1600
April 24 - shoot Arista Premium 100
April 24 - shoot Arista Premium 400 @ 1600
April 26 - shoot Arista Premium 100
April 29 - dev all AP 100 in D76 1:1 in one tank (no problem) , dev all AP 400 in XTOL 1:1 in one tank (problems!)

The developers are probably less than 6 weeks old. The fixer is a bit older but can't remember how much.

bdial · May 8, 2016

Looks to be a light leak, could be in the camera or something in your processing procedure. The camera is perhaps somewhat more likely.

naugastyle · May 8, 2016

So it just occurred to me to compare to another OM-2N that someone donated to me once but I've never used (much better than my beat-up hard-traveled one, but of course I have nostalgia for that one), and it does indeed have a nicer light seal than my usual camera. BUT it still seems odd that this could be the issue, when rolls shot in between and after the damaged rolls (in greater sunlight) had no issues. I have 7 more rolls lined up to develop that I'm worried about.

pdeeh · May 8, 2016

It looks like a light leak. And if it Is a light leak and your remaining rolls are affected, there's nothing you can do about it now.
I'd develop them pronto and see what other evidence mounts.
And put some money in your photo budget to get the camera looked at by a repairer

Diapositivo · May 8, 2016

There is a light streak going from one frame to the next without interruption. I think if it were a shutter problem you would see the light stop at each single frame and then at the next frame without involving the gap between frames. So I think it's a light leak either in the camera (damaged gaskets) or in the subsequent pre-development phase (damaged felt on the canister, or mistake in the handling with the changing bag). In any case it's a massive light leak.

piu58 · May 8, 2016

The quite shar light stream covering two negatives indicates that there is a hole in the shutter. During transporting the film, the sun or another bright light source shone at the leak. You moved the camera during that process and therewith the angle of light changed.

In teh other cases the light meat parts of the interior of the camera and exposed the film secondary.

Jim Noel · May 8, 2016

A light leak along the bottom of the camera, without doubt.

Ricardo Miranda · May 8, 2016

Did you use bulk roll?

Ron789 · May 8, 2016

piu58 said:
The quite shar light stream covering two negatives indicates that there is a hole in the shutter. During transporting the film, the sun or another bright light source shone at the leak. You moved the camera during that process and therewith the angle of light changed.

In teh other cases the light meat parts of the interior of the camera and exposed the film secondary.

I agree: this is a shutter problem; it has nothing to do with processing. You see the light from a bright lamp traveling from one negative to the next. This indicates that the shutter passed light while you were advancing the film. The OM2n uses a horizontal rubberized fabric shutter. My guess is that the material is worn out and has become somewhat transparant. I once had a similar problem with a similar shutter. You may be able to repair the shutter cloth with some liquid rubber but when the cloth is really worn I wouldn't bother to try and get a "new" camera body instead.

Xmas · May 9, 2016

The bottom pair look just like what some people call bromine drag but normally is under fixing.

The top pair might be a leak but I'd doubt that you had two faults.

The negatives are scrap unless you refix and rewash, you might improve the bottom two. It may be too late.

Fixing by time and temperature using stored part used fixer is way hazardous.

Fix by inspection is less risky.

Thanks for the negative scans, it is always necessary to look at negatives before cutting up and filing.

Much easier to load them back on a reel.

Note my photo book said these things not me.

Ricardo Miranda · May 9, 2016

I am going to give another alternative: light leak from cassette.
That's why I asked if this was from a bulk roll.
That looks like what you could get if the top or bottom caps aren't any more tight.
I would consider that it was a fault or a mishandling with cassette when loading into reel.
Do you use a dark bag? Is it light tight?
Darkroom not sealed properly?

naugastyle · May 10, 2016

Thanks for all the input! To answer some of your questions:

1) I tried to re-fix, but it made no difference. I'm not sure under-fixing could have been the problem anyway, since those rolls were processed in the same tank.
2) I use a changing bag, not a darkroom. The inner bag has a few holes in it, but the outer bag is intact. The holes have been there for at least 2 years, do not seem to be growing any larger, and have never caused this issue in the past. On the off chance that some films show leaks more easily, Arista Premium 100 & 400 are pretty much my standards which have never had problems, but I've used the same bag with other b/w, color, and slide films.
3) I'm not using bulk film currently as I've had really bad luck with cassettes popping open in the past. (unfortunately, I really need to use bulk film though, I have a lot of it already purchased from before...have been trying to work with re-using regular cassettes but it's not feeding in smoothly even when experimenting with the lights on).

I developed my newest 6 rolls. Two rolls had problems, but not as much throughout the film as in the bottom example from my last post. These are more like the top example, where the problem is much more startling but only appears on a couple frames. The bottom example's problem (previous post) probably occurs on at least 20 frames out of 36 :*(.

1.

2.

3.

Here's how the occurrence of this leak or shutter issue or whatever it is fits into my shooting schedule. I know the dates aren't important, I'm just showing how random the problem seems to be:

April 12 - Arista Premium 400 @ 1600
April 23 - Arista Premium 400 @ 1600 (damage)
April 24 - 1) Arista Premium 100 (no damage) 2) Arista Premium 400 @ 1600 (damage) 3) shoot half-roll of Arista Premium 400@1600 (no damage)
April 26 - 1) Arista Premium 100, 4 rolls 2) partial roll Arista Premium 400
April 28 - shoot part of that AP 400 roll
May 3 - shoot remainder of that AP 400 roll
May 7 - 1) morning: Arista Premium 400, 2 rolls (damage on 1st roll, top example) 2) night: shoot remainder of AP 400 @1600 (no damage) 3) same time at night: AP 400 @ 1600, 2 rolls (damage on 2nd roll, the bottom 2 examples)

Rolls @400 in D76 from April 26-May 3 + May 7th developed in the same tank. Rolls @1600 in XTOL from April 24 + May 7th developed in the same tank.

Thankfully I do have a nearly-unused extra body that I'd forgotten about thanks to a kind donor, but urgh I have a lot of sentiment for the one that's suddenly causing issues. First my negative scanner craps out on me (these were done on a flatbed), and now this...

MattKing · May 10, 2016

It probably just needs light seals.

You didn't happen to lose the cover for the motor drive connector, did you?

naugastyle · May 10, 2016

MattKing said:
You didn't happen to lose the cover for the motor drive connector, did you?

Yes, but I lost it about 6 years ago, and the problem just started 2 weeks ago.

paul ron · May 10, 2016

take the lens off.... open the back, lift the mirror. shine a bright light from the back n look for pin holes?

then with the back closed, no lens, fire the shutter in t or b to lock it open. shine the light around the outside of the camera with your eye sealing the lens opening, look for light.

but i dont think its the camera.... not consistant enough.

Ricardo Miranda · May 10, 2016

I don't think it is a camera fault.
How's the negative surface?
Do they have any physical damage? Some lines look like they are kinks.
I suspect they are from bad cassettes or mishandling loading into tank reels.
Do you use Paterson tanks or SS tanks?

Diapositivo · May 11, 2016

Time to buy a new changing bag IMO.
The streaks could be light passing from tiny holes. You roll and tilt the reels while loading it. So the light streak has this sinuous shape and goes from one frame to the other. Then a ply of the bag, with the movement of the hands, closes the hole again.
So you might have occasional light leaks here and there.

New cassettes cannot have this kind of percentage of defective felt.

And, as said by paul ron, if it were the camera the problem would pop up more consistently. A light leak from the gaskets would show in every roll taken in the same light conditions.

Damaged film (again)

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