Daguerreotype on glass plates?

Robert Hall · Jun 3, 2009

So for some reason this came as news to me. I understood that the process needed to be done on a silver surface. Now in a couple of references I have seen the statements of Daguerreotypes being done on glass. I understand that the image is fragile and would be quite typical to lay a piece of glass over the top to protect the image.

Is this factual? Have Daguerreotypes been done on glass?

Thank you.

Robert Hall · Jun 4, 2009

nickandre · Jun 4, 2009

I thought that the "magic" of the daguerreotype was produced by the mirror it was supported by. Without that it would just be a glass plate with an image on it.

glbeas · Jun 4, 2009

tiberiustibz said:
I thought that the "magic" of the daguerreotype was produced by the mirror it was supported by. Without that it would just be a glass plate with an image on it.

Dags were originally done on metal plates that were silver plated, sensitised by iodine fumes. No reason this couldn't be done on a silver mirror that did not have the usual laquer coating normally applied to protect it from tarnishing.
What you may be thinking about is another process called ambrotype, a collodian emulsion positive process that has a black backing to make the silver image look lighter by comparison.

removed account4 · Jun 4, 2009

just to add onto what gary already said ...

people often mistaken ambrotypes for dags.
they are both found in cases that tend to look the same ...
it is tilting the image and seeing the negative as well as the positive
that is the dead give away ...
some of the early ambrotypes had a 2nd glass plate that was put
ontop of the glass image to "seal it" / protect it (in the case ) ...
as you mentioned ...

this site has a little info on both ..

JG Motamedi · Jun 4, 2009

Daguerreotypes can be be made on silvered (mirrored) glass, or any pure silver surface. The problem with silvered glass is that it is incredibly fragile, and tends to flake off in the fixer or gilding. Attached is a example of what happens.

(Attached: Traditional mercury developed whole plate Daguerreotype on silvered glass)

Colin Graham · Jun 4, 2009

Still pretty awesome!

wildbillbugman · Jun 4, 2009

Hi All,
This thread caught my eye because I am interested in all types of images on glass. Abot 10 years ago I posed this same question to a lady chemist who's husband was a Daguerreotype maker. She thought that,in order to get enough silver on the glass to make a real Daguerreotype,the piece of glass would become opaque. This would defeat the purpose of using glass instead of the traditional copper.
I have never made a real Daguerreotype, only the so called "Modern Daggerriotype" which dose not use mercury for developing and looks pale beside The Real Thing. But I would tend to agree with the Lady Chemist, who's name escapes me.
Bill

removed account4 · Jun 5, 2009

thanks jason

that is beautiful!!

john

glbeas · Jun 5, 2009

JG Motamedi said:
Daguerreotypes can be be made on silvered (mirrored) glass, or any pure silver surface. The problem with silvered glass is that it is incredibly fragile, and tends to flake off in the fixer or gilding. Attached is a example of what happens.

(Attached: Traditional mercury developed whole plate Daguerreotype on silvered glass)

I think thats why a clear laquer is applied over the image to protect it. I suspect also the silver was peeling because it was applied to the glass poorly. Maybe the glass can be etched prior to the chemical deposition process to give it some tooth for the silver to adhere to, since it will not be used as a mirror from the glass side anyway.

JG Motamedi · Jun 5, 2009

I think thats why a clear laquer is applied over the image to protect it...

To my knowledge Daguerreotypes were never commonly lacquered. In fact, I have never heard of a Daguerreotype being lacquered. Beginning in the early 1840s Daguerreotypes were gilded.

Perhaps you are thinking of collodion images?

In any case, there is a long discussion somewhere on APUG about how to increase the adherence of silver to glass. I never thought to etch the glass and will someday try it. I suspect that the matt surface of the glass would effect the surface of the silver and decrease reflectivity.

glbeas · Jun 5, 2009

Depends on how fine the etching is and how thick the silver is applied. I imagine with the right ratio the silver will polish up to a good finish.

wildbillbugman · Jun 5, 2009

Hi All,
Am I to understand that some of you who are participating in this Thread actualy make, or have made, real mercury developed Daguerreotypes? I would love to hear the detailes. I have always been "chicken" to try.
Bill

Kirk Keyes · Jun 5, 2009

Bill, I have a couple of bottles of mercury I can give you. For some reason, people are always giving their old chemicals...

Robert Hall · Jun 10, 2009

Thank you all for replies, and I know we are the "if it can be done we have done it" kind of group, but do we have anyone who might take a stab at answering the question directly?

Would anyone think this was a standard of the process right at first? Do we have any references to using glass plates? I would think that it would be "unusual" to use glass because of the above stated issues.

Comments?

Anscojohn · Jun 10, 2009

Is this factual? Have Daguerreotypes been done on glass?

Thank you.[/QUOTE]

*******
No.

sionnac · Jun 10, 2009

http://imsc.usc.edu/haptics/LostandFound/terms_ambrotype.html

JG Motamedi · Jun 10, 2009

I can't say for certain (I am a positivist by day) but I do not believe that Daguerreotypes were made on silvered glass in the 19th century. I have never found reference to this in any of the 19th century texts I have read, which are quite a few, nor have I ever heard of a 19th century Daguerreotype on glass.

Still, since I have done it, I see no reason why a 19th century practitioner could not have done it. Of course, they would have had less need to do so, since manufactured Daguerreotype plates were easy to come by in the 1840s, and relatively cheap.

wildbillbugman · Jun 10, 2009

Kirk Keyes said:
Bill, I have a couple of bottles of mercury I can give you. For some reason, people are always giving their old chemicals...

No Kirk,
I already look too old for my 22 years!
Bill

wildbillbugman · Jun 10, 2009

[QUOTE=Robert Hall "if it can be done we have done it"
Huhh?:confused:
I have rarely read anything with which I disagree more strongly. I will believe that "The Earth is Flllaaat(!) first! I have done some things that no one has ever done before, nore would a sane human being ever want to.

Bill

Kirk Keyes · Jun 11, 2009

sionnac said:
http://imsc.usc.edu/haptics/LostandFound/terms_ambrotype.html

Sorry, Ambrotypes are not Daguerreotypes.

Daguerreotype on glass plates?

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