Daft, I say. The man's chasing unicorns - aka portable MF

HiHoSilver · Dec 11, 2015

Pretty much each time I ask - especially those in the bus - either sales or repair, it sounds like the most compact of the MF cameras are poorly built - or slow (old folders). I'm drawn to the image quality & compactness in the Mamiya 6 & 7 (espec. the 6) or the Fuji G(x) 6xxx. Serious good quality. But in the case of the fully armed Mamiyas, I keep getting warned away from the build quality - mostly on the Mamiyas. Is the semi-pocketable (large coat cargo pocket) MF camera just a unicorn or leprechaun? 'Love the 500. I've yet to attain speed in its use - such that candid people shots are feasible - or anything that moves much.

Maybe MF is just not the right ticket for people/action/portability. The 35 does well. 'Just wish for a bit more real estate on the negative.

'Don't have a feel for whether this is a well trod path/question, or if its settled & MF ain't the hot tip for fast. Your thoughts would be a appreciated.

Sirius Glass · Dec 11, 2015

I owned a Certo Super Sport Dolly and a Mamiya C330. I have two Hasselblads. I did not and have not had problems with them nor are any of them poorly built.

jimjm · Dec 11, 2015

I've got a 1938 Zeiss Super Ikonta B (6x6) and it's built like a tank. Super rigid when unfolded, perfect bellows and equal build quality to any Leica or Contax. The 80/2.8 Tessar is fast enough and excellent quality - just as good as my Rolleicords or Rolleiflexes. RF focusing is not as fast as an M-Leica, but for street/candid shooting just scale-focus and stop down the lens a bit if you need to shoot quickly.

I also have a Bronica RF645 which is better for me as it has a built-in meter, the VF/RF is very bright and it's quick to focus. It's about the same size and weight as a Nikon F100 with lens attached and it's solidly-built. With the 45mm lens it's a great street shooter. Some folks have reported problems with the film advance, but it's never been an issue for me.

Theo Sulphate · Dec 11, 2015

Voigtländer Bessa 6x9. It shouldn't be slow to use.

http://mattsclassiccameras.com/v_bessa_69.html

hoffy · Dec 11, 2015

It depends on what you consider to be portable.

When you compare, say, a Hassleblad or a Bronica SQ to a modern DSLR, with a battery grip and ANY modern lens, the MF SLR doesn't look too different and isn't any less portable.

My 5c worth.

michr · Dec 11, 2015

Getting the photograph, regardless of negative size is the most important thing. Do your action photos require faster than 1/500s shutter speed? If so, then medium format folders are probably out of the question.

EdSawyer · Dec 11, 2015

Mamiya7 has fantastic build quality, what are people talking about? It's main framework is a monolithic forged aluminum or magnesium structure, it's not fragile or cheap. It really is the crown jewel of handheld MF.

trythis · Dec 11, 2015

The Fuji GA645 I have isnt good for sports action but its pretty damned easy to use. Its a point and shoot and works about the same as an Olympus MJU I or II. Its very motorized and kinda noisy, but half press for focus and exposure, shoot or re-aim and shoot. CLick, whrrr. Kinda sounds like a Polaroid 600.
They can be had for around $350 or less. The zoom version is a bit higher.

Its my favorite carry around MF camera, its not perfect, but its the best there is if you are out with the family and they aren't keen on you spending more than 20 seconds to line up a shot. Manual focusing is a bit fiddly.

I would buy another if mine died.

HiHoSilver · Dec 11, 2015

Gents, I appreciate your kind help.

Sirious, I love my blads too. In fact, I got them from taking the Rockwell recommendation that if poor design/build quality would drive you nuts - get the 'blad. I got the blad(s). They don't disappoint at all. When I want to do thoughtful shooting, there's nothing I'd rather use.

Jim, I share the fondness for the old folder. The little Retina & Ikonta know how to push my buttons. I've been hearing 'scale focus' alot, and rightly or wrongly - I hear it as 'focus smochas'. I suspect in the right hands, this would embarrass AF, linked rangefinders, etc. If its workable for the fast shot, I have some learning & practice (lots) to do. For now, they're slow. That doesn't mean undesireable. Those two folders look sweet to me.

I never knew Bronica made an RF. 'Haven't seen images from them, but a quick look at reviews would give a good impression. I don't know what serviceability would be like, but it looks like a nice camera along the lines of the better MFRF. 'Seems like all the good ones get discontinued.

Ed, the mami glass is what calls my name. I've seen 3 evals comparing Rollei, Mami7, 500cm, fuji. In looking at the crops, the Fuji held its own w/ the blad. The Mami & Rollei looked better. Now this is at a quality level where the differences require crops to see, but I need no convincing about their glass. Build quality is another matter. Maybe I could get one and live happily ever after. I certainly would LOVE the images. But the problem reports would say others haven't been as lucky as you've been. If it weren't for this issue, I'd simply sell a blad & get a Mami6 for its compactness.

Theo, It may be I've seen all the wrong stuff, but I've not seen any images from the Bessa that sting the eyes w/ sharpness like the Mami, Fuji or Rollei. As you might guess, I looked around for info on them. People seemed happy, but none of their images are on the same block as the MamiRolleiFuji.

My fear is that Michr is right - you want fast, say g'bye to mf. If I could confidently get fast w/ Broni or a folder, or even the blad, it would change the tempest between my ears.

I console my dirging w/ a dictum I learned in target sports - ain't no toy (camera) that'll do as much for your scores and one more day/month (or another 100 rolls) at the range.

'Hard to say how much I appreciate you guys sharing your thinking. Now if only those negatives would dry faster...

HiHoSilver · Dec 11, 2015

Trythis - That zoom model got my attention in a big way. The zoom isn't very broad, but it looked portable, has excellent glass, and I have no issue at all w/ 645 format. They're available gray market new for $488.

Sirius Glass · Dec 11, 2015

High Hoe Ag I do not have much regard for Ken Rockwell.

HiHoSilver · Dec 11, 2015

You're far from alone, Sirius. One area he has not been helpful is coming up to speed on processing. He doesn't want to marinate his own anymore. If I couldn't do my own, I couldn't afford to shoot MF at all. The 2nd (100') roll of HP5 35mm sits in the fridge.

He doesn't bat 1000, but no one does. I have my own departures from his thoughts, but I sing harmony on an awful lot. I have to go elsewhere for anything like composition feedback, processing questions, etc.

Sirius Glass · Dec 12, 2015

Ken Rockwell's idea of film processing is dropping it off at the Photo Mat kiosk in the shopping mall parking lot and picking it up a few days later.

Bill Burk · Dec 12, 2015

I have more regard for Sirius Glass than for Ken Rockwell...

But I was just thinking somewhat the same lines tonight.

I'd like to make a 6x9 negative for contact printing my Christmas cards this year...

And it would sure be nice if there were an SLR 6x9 system as good as Hasselblad.

Alas' I'll have to "settle" for Bessa II or Ikonta C.

To be fair, when using either of these... I never felt I missed a shot.

And you can't ask for more compact. These two fit in a pocket.

Bill Burk · Dec 12, 2015

Well... not at the same time.

Sirius Glass · Dec 12, 2015

Bill Burk said:
And it would sure be nice if there were an SLR 6x9 system as good as Hasselblad.

Not in the same league as Hasselblad but an SLR would be a 3 1/4" X 4 1/4" Graflex. But then you would need really big pockets.

Alan Gales · Dec 12, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
Ken Rockwell's idea of film processing is dropping it off at the Photo Mat kiosk in the shopping mall parking lot and picking it up a few days later.

If your photographs looked like his, would you bother to do any different?

Ko.Fe. · Dec 12, 2015

Candids doesn't require speed. ISO 100 film and Sunny 16 at 1/100 will do. I used 645 folder with scale focusing for street photography. Very small, even comparing to many 135 film cameras. And frame size is still big enough to be different from 135 film. Or compact scale focusing 6x6 folder.
Some folders will have two dots on focusing scale, one for close and mid focus, one for mid and far focus. It works for fast and accurate enough focusing. And where are some folders with only two focus settings and tree shutter speeds. Simple is speed.

Ian Grant · Dec 12, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
Not in the same league as Hasselblad but an SLR would be a 3 1/4" X 4 1/4" Graflex. But then you would need really big pockets.

Better still the smaller 6x9 Century Graflex, or similar like a 6x9 Busch Pressman, I shoot hand-held with a larger 5x4 Crown or Super Graphic and can work remarkably fast.

For size though I'd go for a post WWII 6x9 like Bill Burk suggests, I have an Ensign Selfix 820 with a sharp 105mm f3.5 Ross Xpres lens, very solidly build - I should use it more often. I'm fine with scale focusing as I use it regularly with my 617 camera as well.

In practice though I use TLRs, a Yashicamat 124 while in Turkey and a Rolleoflex Automat or E2 here in the UK as my main 120 camera, reliable, portable. quick to use, plus I like using the square format.

Ian

Vonder · Dec 12, 2015

Anyone considering the Fuji GA645zi, I can vouch for the excellent optics. Build quality and electronics, not so much. There's too much plastic for longevity and on mine, the LCD is flickering. Only a matter of time before it's a paperweight.

BrianShaw · Dec 12, 2015

My MF unicorn was a Rolliecord with monopod.

Paul Howell · Dec 12, 2015

I find my Mamiya Universal to be portable, designed to hand held, rugged, has taken a lot of abuse over the 35 years I have owned it, excellent 100 3.5 and wides, the 150 is good but not up the 100. It is heavy, carrying it with a wide, normal and a few backs all day can be an effort.

David Brown · Dec 12, 2015

For the college newspaper, I shot basketball with a Mamiya 220 TLR. Lightweight, portable, and a big honking negative!

Of course, that was the early 1970's, when we didn't know any better ...

HiHoSilver · Dec 12, 2015

Its completely true that sports, events have been shot w/ the normal MF gear. Maybe I need to chase those skills rather than a piece of gear I imagine will make it more likely I'll have a good camera with me when I don't want to drag a bagful. The idea is easy transportability. For some reason I don't see myself wearing anything a Mami Universal would fit in.

In MF so far, it seems the Fujis win for portability & absence of breakdown reports, though that Bronica RF645 is looking serious. Unlike the classics, I expect all of the MFRF formats to become unserviceable due to parts availability.

'Been reading up on scale focusing & one place its recommended is for speed when using AF & you can't wait for the focus time. That's a rather poignant argument for learning to use the classic gear for the fast shot.

Again, Gents, I appreciate your kindness.

Bill Burk · Dec 12, 2015

Consider a tripod as part of the gear you will need to carry.

Sharpness and detail can be improved in many cases with a tripod.

Then you can look at slower glass too. And that brings folders back into the possible choices.

You can always find someone to work on an old mechanical camera.

Daft, I say. The man's chasing unicorns - aka portable MF

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