D76R for straight procesing?

[Mick Fagan]

Received a phone call from a retired friend, seems he has inadvertently purchased some D76R instead of his normal D76.

He was wondering whether it could be used (somehow) as a normal developer, rather than disposing of it, as that is his only other option at this stage.

I checked out Kodak and downloaded their J-78 technical publication. It appears that it may not be suitable as a straight developer in any shape or form.

I was wondering whether anyone out there may have used it in the past, or present, as a straight developer, if so was it workable?

Or is it just unworkable, unless used as a replenishment as intended

Mick.

Ps:- forgot to add, he has the 3.8 litre kit.

 

[Pinholemaster]

This stuff isn't that expensive. Order some D-76, and then use the replenisher as directed.

 

[Mick Fagan]

I agree with you regarding the cost, but the term, "Expensive", is relative!

I did say he was retired, think of shoestring.

I would normally whip up a litre or two of D76 from scratch for him, but it's his hobby, and I don't wish to intrude too early. He's made an error (very bad eyesight) and he would like to come up with a workable solution, if possible.

Mick.

 

[Larry Bullis]

I wondered whether you could convert the 76r to normal D76 by increasing the volume and adding some more of one or more components, but it doesn't look like it. The R has half again as much metol and Hq, the same amount of sulphite, and ten times the amount of borax. I guess you could, but you'd end up with an awful lot of d76!

 

[dpurdy]

I have a published formula for both and what I have shows that the metol is 50% more and the Hydroquinone is also 50% more but the Borax is 10 times more. So I don't know exactly how that will affect the developer activity if you just dilute 50% more to make the Hydroquinone and Metol corrected.

I have heard that published formulas aren't the same as the actual secret brew in the factory.

 

[gainer]

It has been done. You have to add a lot of borax to get a small change of pH. I remember Schwalberg and Vestal writing something about it. Diluting 2 parts of it with 1 part of water should get you close enough to be usable. At least, you will have a developer that is pretty good and can be played with, as everyone does with D-76 anyway. Tell your friend it's OK to save his money for shoestrins and food.

 

[gainer]

By the way, a method for reducing the effect of excess borax while increasing the buffering of the desired pH is to add boric acid. Kodak's D-76 probably has the borax-boric acid, but perhaps not in the replenisher, as pH tends to dise with use.

 

[Mick Fagan]

Some very good suggestions there, looks like some fiddling is on the cards, many thanks all.

Yep, some new shoestrings should be affordable!

Mick.

 

[2F/2F]

He can just return the replenisher (as long as it is not opened and he has the receipt), and use the store credit to get the intended developer.

 

[nworth]

D-76R is:

Water (52C) 750 ml
Metol 3 g
Sodium sulfite, anh. 100 g
Hydroquinone 7.5 g
Borax 20 g
WTM 1 l,

compared to D-76, which is:

Water (52C) 750 ml
Metol 2 g
Sodium sulfite, anh. 100 g
Hydroquinone 5 g
Borax 2 g
WTM 1 l.

Diluted 1+1 or 1+3, D-76R should make a pretty good developer with an activity somewhere between D-76 and DK-50. The problem is that you have no guidance about developing times. If you have a good stock of it, it might be fun to do some tests. But you will waste some film, and D-76 is pretty cheap.

 

[gainer]

May I suggest that 1 36 exposure roll shot of the same scene at box speed can furnish at least 6 test strips for determining satisfactory developing times? I did it anyway, I guess.

 

[Mick Fagan]

Gainer, the single or possibly double test roll situation, is where we are leading too.

This means we can pursue the possibility of using the developer, and, at the same time, have some learning fun on the cheap.

Mick.

 

[nworth]

I got curious, so I made a couple of quick tests using D-76R diluted 1+3. Although the tests are very preliminary, I can't really recommend this as a developer. A look at the formulas shows that this combination is low on sulfite and metol compared to D-76 at 1+1, but it contains three times the borax of that developer. (Agfa 17M may be the closest in comparison.) The hydroquinone in D-76 mainly serves to regenerate the metol, as I understand it. D-76 with extra borax used to be a favorite for pushing film. Looking at the times for D-76 with various films, I chose 11 minutes as a trial developing time. Rather outdated Kodak TMax 400 (TMY) showed low contrast and a lot of fog. That may have been the film, but I got the feeling that the developer could have used potassium bromide at about 250 mg per liter of working solution. Since I was working with 35mm film, the densities were hard to measure, but the gamma was about 0.45, indicating that the film was underdeveloped despite the density. The developer produced much better results with HP5+ (which was also more in date). I used a 4X5 sheet, and therefore could measure densities easily. The developed film showed a gamma of 0.9, which indicates overdevelopment. A better development time would probably have been about 6 or 7 minutes. Interestingly, the film showed good separation of densities all the way step tablet step 18 (D=2.65) to step 1 (D=0.15). The straightline portion ran from step 18 to step 10 where there was a transition to a fairly linear shoulder with a gamma of about 0.6 running all the way to step 1. For both films, the grain was very fine and similar to what you would normally expect from D-76 (1+1). As a developer, D-76R seems to work fairly well with HP5+.

 

[Mick Fagan]

Another interesting reply, this one certainly gives a possible direction we may head towards.

I'll keep you all posted.

Mick.

 

[gainer]

Don't throw it away yet. The current D-76 probably has borax and boric acid in about equal amounts. 8 grams of each per liter in some formulas. You can add at least that amount of boric acid, which the druggist has, and probably decrease fog on fresh film. Save the bromide for old film. Boric acid comes in two forms, powder and crystal. One is easier to dissolve than the other. I don't remember which. The druggist may know, if he even has both.

Low sulfite? I think the original 100 g/l was just routine, never optimized. I have mixed it with much less sulfite with no ill effects. Diluting 1+2 would make it more like D76 1+1. I would think 1+1 dilution plus 8 grams of boric acid per liter after dilution would make it pretty much like D-76.

 

[gainer]

I just tested my idea for boric acid and a different dilution. It works very well on Ilford FP4+ film. My boric acid is the powder that I bought a long time ago. It resists wetting and floats around on the surface until you squash each little lump, but eventually dissolves. 1/2 tablespoon of this powder weighs 8 grams. If you dissolve 1 1/2 tbs in a liter of D76 R and then dilute 1 part of that with 2 parts of water, you will have a pretty good facsimile of buffered D76 diluted 1+1.

 

[nworth]

I decided to give it one more try before throwing out the chemicals. I tried a short strip of fresh Kodak 400TX in D-76R (1+3) for 6 minutes. Again, the results were disappointing. The gamma came out to be about 0.5, but there was still some highlight blocking. The curves for 400TX on their web site site that 400TX is quite sensitive to development time in D-76 type developers. I think a time of 7-1/2 to 8 minutes would be about right for 400TX in D-76R (1+3), but I am still not encouraged by the look of the negatives. I also tried another sheet of HP5+, this time at 5-1/4 minutes in a drum (about like 6-1/4 minutes in a small tank). This film amazes me with its ability to separate all the tones on a step chart regardless of the development. In this case, the curve was very linear from step 1 all the way through step 21. (Tablet density increases from 0.15 by 0.15 for each step.) The gamma was 0.51. A time of 7-1/2 minutes in a small tank should work well for this film. In general, negatives developed in D-76R do not appear to be quite as sharp as those developed in D-76. I modified my D-76R by adding the equivalent of 1 gram of potassium bromide per liter of stock solution. This is probably not necessary, but I think it helps a bit.

I think Gainer's idea of adding boric acid may be the way to go with this.

 

[gainer]

Try it. You'll like it.