D76 question

SoulSurround · Dec 1, 2005

L.S.,

Can you start using D76 straight after you made it from the powder, or do you need to leave it for some time for the buffers to become 'stable'?!

Thanks a lot in advance,
SoulSurround

jim appleyard · Dec 1, 2005

I've done both and I can't see any difference. I don't know about stability, but some folks say you should let it sit for 24 hours for everything to dissolve; makes sense that way.

SoulSurround · Dec 1, 2005

jim appleyard said:
I've done both and I can't see any difference. I don't know about stability, but some folks say you should let it sit for 24 hours for everything to dissolve; makes sense that way.

Thanks! I'll leave it for 24 hours just to be sure. Do you know whether you can also leave a (120 roll) film in a (JoBo 1520) development-tank for 24 hours? I already wound the film on the spool this evening before finding out that I didn't have enough D76 left to process the film!

Thanks again,
SoulSurround

Flotsam · Dec 1, 2005

I never tried it but I can't imagine that it would be a problem. If concerned, just keep it subdued light and throw a towel over it.

fschifano · Dec 1, 2005

I can't prove any of this, but I've heard that you should leave it for about 24 hours before you use it. It is supposed to be more active than normal for the first 24 hours or so. As a matter of course I let it sit for a day or so, preferring to let it cool down to ambient temperature of it's own accord, rather than speeding up the process. Any undissolved bits go into solution in that time and my results are very consistent.

jim appleyard · Dec 1, 2005

I don't see why you can't leave the film on the spool in the tank--as long as it's clean and dry.

SoulSurround · Dec 1, 2005

jim appleyard said:
I don't see why you can't leave the film on the spool in the tank--as long as it's clean and dry.

Thanks y'all! This re-assures me a bit, as I am testing some Kodak 400TX for development times and it would be a shame if the results would be off due to some circumstance I hadn't thought of!

Thanks for giving me a piecefull night-rest .
SoulSurround

htmlguru4242 · Dec 1, 2005

I use D-76 as my main dev, and I've waited as little as 5 minutes before using it. I've never had bad results with D-76 (barring photographer error, of course). When you mix it up, you'll probably notice that everything doesn't dissolve right away. Other than that, it's fine.

Photo Engineer · Dec 1, 2005

htmlguru4242 said:
I use D-76 as my main dev, and I've waited as little as 5 minutes before using it. I've never had bad results with D-76 (barring photographer error, of course). When you mix it up, you'll probably notice that everything doesn't dissolve right away. Other than that, it's fine.

I find that D76 and Dektol both undergo activity changes over the first 24 hours. This is well documented in Mees and Mees and James.

Kirk Keyes has posted some of the chemistry here.

PE

Mick Fagan · Dec 2, 2005

I've been mixing D76 up and using it within about 1 hour for almost 18 years now, maybe I'll bone up on what Mees & Mees & James have to say.

I have Developing, by Jacobson & Jacobson 1980 edition which I've had for over 20 years now. Perhaps I'll reread some of it to see if I'm missing something.

I haven't seen any real difference, visually, in any of the films I've developed in that time, but you never know, eh?

What is it, about these dual named authors in photography?

Mick.

SoulSurround · Dec 2, 2005

Mick Fagan said:
I haven't seen any real difference, visually, in any of the films I've developed in that time, but you never know, eh?

The thing is that I am going to measure the negatives with a densitometer. I can imagine that in 'practical use' it is barely noticable, but as I want to be 100% sure I'll just wait processing till after the 24hours... so that the densitometer (I use the Heiland Splitgrade for this) doesn't 'see' a difference either.

Once again many thanks...
SoulSurround

Mick Fagan · Dec 2, 2005

SoulSurround, I would be interested in your results, if you have any between the fresh mixed developer and 24 hour wait developer.

Mick.

SoulSurround · Dec 2, 2005

Mick Fagan said:
SoulSurround, I would be interested in your results, if you have any between the fresh mixed developer and 24 hour wait developer.

Mick.

Unfortunately I didn't develop the roll just after mixing the D76. I only had one test-roll so I couldn't compare rolls (the other -identical- one was already developed the day before). But I will keep the test in mind for the next time!

Best regards,
SoulSurround

titrisol · Dec 2, 2005

I haven;t used D76 in a long time, but when I did I had sometimes to mix it and use it... no difference tha I can recall.

Mick: you mean like Upton and Upton?

Tom Hoskinson · Dec 2, 2005

Mick Fagan said:
I've been mixing D76 up and using it within about 1 hour for almost 18 years now, maybe I'll bone up on what Mees & Mees & James have to say.

I have Developing, by Jacobson & Jacobson 1980 edition which I've had for over 20 years now. Perhaps I'll reread some of it to see if I'm missing something.

I haven't seen any real difference, visually, in any of the films I've developed in that time, but you never know, eh?

What is it, about these dual named authors in photography?

Mick.

Here is another pair of authors (H.C. Carlton and J.I. Crabtree) whose test data consistently show an inrease in D-76 rate of development with time (from mixing - they call this Keeping Time).

See page 362 and 364 of Modern Photographic Processing by Grant Haist.

dancqu · Dec 2, 2005

Tom Hoskinson said:
... whose test data consistently show an inrease
in D-76 rate of development with time (from mixing -
they call this Keeping Time).

From Patrick Dignan's Classic B&W Formulas an
article by Milan Merhar:

"Upon storage or use the borax will tend to
become more hydrolyzed and thus increase the
ph."

So he and a few others interested took out the
borax and substituted 3 and 9.6 grams, S. bisulfite
and S. carbonate.

"This formula thus solves the problems we found
with D-76." ... "Lifetime tests of this solution show
that up to ... without any variation ...". The
implication in my mind is that it is upon use
that ph will rise and not upon storage.
Do your sources pin that down?

If ph rise is a problem only on use and reuse,
use the developer one-shot and skip the borax.
Then again, if only on storage ph is a problem,
skip the borax. Another example of a solutions
make-up being dictated by it's way of usage.

In short, included borax only if the developer
is to be reused. Mr. Merhar's substitute though
be better. Dan

D76 question

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