D76 mixing error

memzilla · Apr 5, 2013

Hello everyone,

While mixing up some Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent, I realized that I did not follow the instructions properly when I mixed up my first batch of D76 developer.

I dissolved the D76 powder into 3L of water at 55 degrees Celsius, but forgot to add the other 0.8L afterward.

I guess I should have realized something was wrong when the mixed developer didn't come close to filling the second 2L accordion bottle, but at the time I just rationalized that the first accordion bottle must have stretched beyond it's nominal capacity.

Anyway, I used 650ml of the D76 to develop 2 rolls of 35mm and other than some slightly yellow spots (drying marks? residual chemical?) the negatives seem to have come out OK. (I'm hoping the HCA might help eliminate those spots.)

I'm about to develop my first B&W 120 roll and wanted to ask if I should add perhaps 0.63L of water to the remaining D76. (Since I've already used 0.65L/3L or about 17%, I'm thinking I should only add 83% of the 0.8L I was supposed to add initially.)

Thanks,
Mike

P.S. Do I need to bring the D76 or the water up to 55 degrees Celsius if I do add some water?

noacronym · Apr 5, 2013

I believe I'd throw it out and start over.

nworth · Apr 5, 2013

The error is not terribly bad, and you can probably use the developer. It is about 26 percent stronger than intended, but that just means your negatives will be a bit more contrasty. If you normally dilute the developer 1+1 to make a working solution, just dilute it 1+1.25 instead, and you will have the same developer you're used to.

noacronym · Apr 5, 2013

nworth said:
The error is not terribly bad, and you can probably use the developer. It is about 26 percent stronger than intended, but that just means your negatives will be a bit more contrasty. If you normally dilute the developer 1+1 to make a working solution, just dilute it 1+1.25 instead, and you will have the same developer you're used to.

agreed.

memzilla · Apr 5, 2013

If it's OK to dilute it 1:1, would it be OK to dilute it just enough to bring it down to stock solution strength?

cliveh · Apr 5, 2013

noacronym said:
I believe I'd throw it out and start over.

+1. Why take the chance?

Newt_on_Swings · Apr 5, 2013

Just dilute it with room temp water. The initial hotter water was to help the chemicals dissolve. If its all dissolved you are good to go.

memzilla · Apr 5, 2013

Thanks everyone for your advice.

I think I'm going to give Newt_on_Swings' recommendation a try.

I'm going to empty the two accordion bottles of D76 into a bucket, then add 0.63L of water at 20 degrees Celcius, stir it, then pour it back into the accordion bottles.

None of my local sources of photo supplies have any developer in stock (and it took a couple of weeks to get the HCA), and I'm concerned that diluting 1:1 will give me coarser grain.

I'll report back with the results.

PhotoJim · Apr 5, 2013

memzilla said:
None of my local sources of photo supplies have any developer in stock (and it took a couple of weeks to get the HCA), and I'm concerned that diluting 1:1 will give me coarser grain.

It does, but it also gives you greater sharpness and more consistency (since you use it once and discard it). You dilute just before use, and only as much as you need from the undiluted stock solution.

Newt_on_Swings · Apr 5, 2013

Yes 1:1 is a good way to use d76, you dilute right before use, which is the way i commonly use it. But if developer is hard to come by where you are, you can get more rolls out of it by reusing stock solution. Just remember to burp your accordion bottle of all air, and keep track of the date mixed, and the number of rolls through it so far. You need to compensate with extra time the closer the developer comes to exhaustion. Kodak states 16 36exp rolls per gallon of d76 as max.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j78/j78.pdf

jernejk · Apr 5, 2013

memzilla said:
P.S. Do I need to bring the D76 or the water up to 55 degrees Celsius if I do add some water?

Why would you want to do that? You dilute it to 1+1 at room temperature anyway. And the infographics on the package shows you can use tap water to make the final stock solution http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3447Vvu45OA/T0q5pwkKxHI/AAAAAAAADiE/G8DWM-x6G9Y/s1600/D76.jpg

Actually... I wonder why one shouldn't use the final amount of water from the beginning?

PhotoJim · Apr 5, 2013

Newt_on_Swings said:
But if developer is hard to come by where you are, you can get more rolls out of it by reusing stock solution. Just remember to burp your accordion bottle of all air, and keep track of the date mixed, and the number of rolls through it so far. You need to compensate with extra time the closer the developer comes to exhaustion. Kodak states 16 36exp rolls per gallon of d76 as max.

That's interesting. I can do 25 rolls of 135-36 in D-76 diluted 1;1 (3.8 litres divided by 150 mL of stock solution per roll). Some say you need more than 150 mL per roll but I've never found it to be the case.

memzilla · Apr 5, 2013

PhotoJim said:
It does, but it also gives you greater sharpness and more consistency (since you use it once and discard it). You dilute just before use, and only as much as you need from the undiluted stock solution.

I didn't intend to use replenisher, so I won't be re-using the D-76. Actually, after reading the health warnings on the D76 packet, I ordered a packet of Xtol.

I will have to give the 1:1 a try later though, just to see the trade-off with increased sharpness vs. coarser grain.

memzilla · Apr 5, 2013

jernejk said:
Why would you want to do that? You dilute it to 1+1 at room temperature anyway. And the infographics on the package shows you can use tap water to make the final stock solution http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3447Vvu45OA/T0q5pwkKxHI/AAAAAAAADiE/G8DWM-x6G9Y/s1600/D76.jpg

Actually... I wonder why one shouldn't use the final amount of water from the beginning?

I hadn't thought of using it 1:1. I was just recalling the stock solution mixing instructions which, unfortunately, I discarded after mixing.

I suppose if someone was mixing in a container just large enough to hold the final volume, they might not want to have all the water in while they're pouring in the powder.

PhotoJim · Apr 5, 2013

The main reason you don't start with 3.8 litres of water before mixing D-76 is that you'll end up with too much water. The powder adds volume to the developer. Start with 3/4 of the final volume, mix in the powder, and then top up - that ensures you don't end up with a final product that's too dilute.

noacronym · Apr 5, 2013

memzilla said:
I didn't intend to use replenisher, so I won't be re-using the D-76. Actually, after reading the health warnings on the D76 packet, I ordered a packet of Xtol.

I will have to give the 1:1 a try later though, just to see the trade-off with increased sharpness vs. coarser grain.

Health warning?? That's just to satisfy the lawyers and the enviromental whackos. D-76 is not going to hurt you, and not everybody is pouring a gallon of it every day down the sewer. I bet in my lifetime there's been 10 gallons of the stuff in my stomach, just from having it on my fingers. Good lord. Use it, and be glad they still make it.

Newt_on_Swings · Apr 5, 2013

PhotoJim said:
That's interesting. I can do 25 rolls of 135-36 in D-76 diluted 1;1 (3.8 litres divided by 150 mL of stock solution per roll). Some say you need more than 150 mL per roll but I've never found it to be the case.

Well they even put a limit on the replenished solution on the next page which I thought was funny, seeing that if you follow the correct guidelines and there is no contamination, continued replenishment should make it last nearly forever if using regularly. I guess it is to be safe on their end. Even things like fixer have somewhat conservative capacities I think, but I follow them anyway as skimping in these departments is false economy.

memzilla · Apr 6, 2013

Sorry folks,

I'm going to have to shoot another roll before I can let you know how this D76 turns out.

After pouring the remaining D76 stock solution I had originally made into a bucket, I added about 0.63L of water, stirred it a bit, then poured it back into my accordion bottles.

As I was putting my 120 roll of exposed Delta 100 into the changing bag, I made the mistake of taking the elastic band I had wrapped around the roll off before I put the roll in the bag, and as I let go of the roll, it unfurled a bit.

I quickly closed the two zippers and put my hands in the arm holes. After 10 frustrating minutes, I figured out I was trying to load the film onto the reel from the wrong direction. After I turned the reel around, the film went on easily and I managed to get it wound onto the reel and separated from the backing paper and tape. With the reel tightly sealed in the tank, I set about developing it.

I followed the same set of developing instructions I had used successfully the first time to develop two rolls of 35mm film with a couple of modifications. Since I now had Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent, I added that to the process after a 30 second water rinse following the fixer stage. Having used the HCA, I washed the film with water for 5 minutes instead of 20-30 minutes.

After 30 seconds in Photo-flo and washing off the suds with water, I opened the tank, and to my horror, was able to see clear through to the center of the reel!

Alas, the only things on the otherwise clear film were a couple of light leak marks near the beginning of the roll and the edge markings.

Not sure what happened here.

I think perhaps I may have loaded the film into the back backward, though I have never had this happen when shooting color film.

The only other thing I can think of is a problem with the back.

Luckily, I shot identical photos with color film in my other back, which I picked-up from my lab today.

I think I'll load both backs with Delta 100 and then shoot and develop both to see if there is a problem with one of my backs, unless someone can think of a developing explanation for my results.

Thanks for reading my tale of (relatively minor) woe!

Newt_on_Swings · Apr 7, 2013

Did you see the brand and film type edge markings on the clear roll? If you can read it clearly then development was fine and it was something else causing the blank roll. if it was completely clear either the developer is the problem or you put in fixer first.

memzilla · Apr 7, 2013

Yes. The edge markings are there: ILFORD 100 DELTA PRO on one side and the frame numbers on the other side.

I guess the problem must have occurred at the time of (supposed) exposure.

For my next rolls, I will swap backs, putting the B&W film in the back I had used for color and vice versa.

If the back is the problem, the color roll will come out blank.

Thanks again!

memzilla · Apr 7, 2013

Uh oh!

I just realized that I used the Hypo Clearing Agent stock solution without diluting it with 4 parts water to 1 part stock solution.

Could this have caused a problem, or did I just waste some HCA?

memzilla · Apr 7, 2013

Film loaded backwards

OK. I just examined the discarded backing paper, and I definitely loaded the film backwards. When I removed the film on the take-up spool from the back, the black side of the backing paper was on the outside. This explains why I needed to use a rubber band to keep the roll from unfurling. I will re-shoot and report back.

noacronym · Apr 7, 2013

You just wasted a little. Personally I always thought hypo killers were snake oil.

memzilla · Apr 7, 2013

Thanks.

Just looking to save some time using the HCA, and I thought it might help with some spots (drying marks?) I got on my first two rolls self-developed.

MattKing · Apr 7, 2013

HCA saves time and water, and helps ensure archival washing.

It isn't the only way to get an archival result, but it is one good way.

If you want to read lots of interesting information about washing film, including the role that HCA may play, you might want to read through this sticky thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

D76 mixing error

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