D76 and D23

removed account4 · May 19, 2009

sorry, i don't have the different recipes in front of me
but can some kind soul tell me the difference between
D76 and D23 ?

i seem to remember they are very similar, like
the bath 2 for D23 ( mr borax ) mixed into to bath 1 ( mr metol )
is almost the same as mr D76 ...

thanks!

john

nickandre · May 19, 2009

D23 is Metol and Sodium Sulphite
D76 adds some other stuff like hydroquinone and borax

http://www.unblinkingeye.com/Articles/DD-23/dd-23.html

jim appleyard · May 19, 2009

D-23 has only the two chemicals, metol and sulfite like tiberius says. The sulfite provides the preservative, the alkali and the silver solvent.

D-23
metol 7.5 g
Sulfite 100 g
water to make 1 liter

D-76
metol 2g
sulfite 100g
Hydroquinone 5g
Borax (we won't get into which grade of borax here!) 2 g
water to make 1 liter

nworth · May 19, 2009

They are both fine-grain developers that retain good sharpness, but the negatives look a bit different from one another. Both work very well.

Lee L · May 19, 2009

can some kind soul tell me the difference between
D76 and D23 ?

OK, I'm feeling sufficiently silly tonight. I think the difference is 53 in hexadecimal.

Lee

MikeSeb · May 20, 2009

Do most of you find that D76 better preserves film speed than D23?

removed account4 · May 27, 2009

thanks jim!

jim appleyard said:
D-23 has only the two chemicals, metol and sulfite like tiberius says. The sulfite provides the preservative, the alkali and the silver solvent.

D-23
metol 7.5 g
Sulfite 100 g
water to make 1 liter

D-76
metol 2g
sulfite 100g
Hydroquinone 5g
Borax (we won't get into which grade of borax here!) 2 g
water to make 1 liter

ahhh there it is!

it is just a pinch of hydroquinone together with D23 ( metol, sulfite (A) + borax(B) )
that makes D76! i knew they were close

thank you all for your help!

when i get tired of riding the bull, i guess i will settle
on split - D23, from what i understand,
it is supposed to be the best of the best ...
and as the old guy at the very end of "the incredibles" (movie) said
" a-yup, there's no school like the olde school"

Anscojohn · May 27, 2009

FWIW, my progression since the early 1960s has been from D76, to HC110, to Rodinal, to D23.

luxikon · May 28, 2009

@anscojohn

Have you (or has anybody else) tried the D-23 two bath, too? Is there a significant difference?
Can you give me the developing times for FP4+ and HP5+ at 20°C in D-23 straight, 1:1, and 1:3?

jim appleyard · May 28, 2009

luxikon said:
@anscojohn

Have you (or has anybody else) tried the D-23 two bath, too? Is there a significant difference?
Can you give me the developing times for FP4+ and HP5+ at 20°C in D-23 straight, 1:1, and 1:3?

Yes, I've done the D-23 two -bath bit. I find that most two-bath devs don't work well with today's films; it's felt that the emulsion isn't thick enough to absorb enough A bath to work. I've done D-23D with 10g of metol and that seemed to help, but I found that Thornton's Two Bath is a good one. This one uses a B bath of sod. metabortate and it's enough of a kick to make it work.

Thornton's Two Bath:

A
H2O 750ml
metol 6.5g
sulfite 80g
H2O to make 1 liter

B
H2O 750ml
sod. metaborate 12g
H2O to make 1 liter

About 4 min/bath should do.

Bill Davis' D2D from "Darkroom Cookbook" also works well. That one uses sod carb and that can make a fairly strong kicker.

George Hart · May 28, 2009

Does anybody know if there is a (practical) difference between D-23 and Ilford's Perceptol, which is another metol-only developer?

George

Ian Grant · May 28, 2009

Yes Perceptol contains Sodium Chloride and is finer grained at the expense of around a stop film speed.

Ian

dancqu · May 28, 2009

MikeSeb said:
Do most of you find that D76 better preserves
film speed than D23?

I don't see how it could possibly do so. Metol alone
in a developer is, in the absence of hydroquinone,
depleted without benefit of in situ regeneration.

Compensation is an inherent characteristic of metol.
More exposed areas quickly deplete the in emulsion
metol. Also metol is restrained by development
byproducts, eg bromide.

So the thin areas with little silver to be reduced
continue to develop while the dense areas due to
depletion and byproduct restraint are slowed in
their development.

For workable negatives with full film speed
metol alone is a good bet. Dan

dynachrome · Sep 16, 2023

A common problem for users of D-23 is inadequate developing time. If film is developed in D-23 to the same contrast index as D-76, both will produce the same film speed.

Pioneer · Sep 16, 2023

I have bought or mixed a lot of different developers over the years, too many to get truly competent with any of them.

Now days I pretty much use nothing but d-23 and Rodinal. Eventually I hope I do get competent with them.

But I do still keep a bottle of TMAX developer around for my TMX100 film.

Udor · Sep 21, 2023

Personally, I find the tones that D23 can produce more subtle. I moved from D76 some thirty years ago to D23 and never looked back. It's the only developer I use now, and I find it very versatile.

D76 and D23

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