D76 - 1:1 or 1:3?

Andrey · Jan 22, 2008

I'm really curious.

Would it be a huge drawback to develop all my films (100, 25 and 400) in 1:3 dilution instead of 1:1?

Let's leave safety out of it.

I don't mind a little larger grain, if that's affected. If I want to see no grain at all, I pick up a TLR.

Thanks

jim appleyard · Jan 22, 2008

Diluting a dev will give you larger grain, better sharpness, better tonality and control of highlights.

I don't know if I'd go 1+3 with 400 speed film in 35mm, that might be a bit too grainy.

Here's what I do FWIW: slow 35mm films, ISO 50 and under. D-76 1+3.
Medium speed 35mm, ISO 100, D-76 1+1
Fast 35mm, ISO 400 + D-76 1+0

Slow-medium 120 films, D-76 1+3
Fast 120 films, D-76 1+1

That's what works for me; a good compromise between sharpness & grain.

Ian Grant · Jan 22, 2008

Or full strength and replenished.

This is how the developer was originally designed to be used. All the attributes of using diluted but far more economical.

Ian

PHOTOTONE · Jan 22, 2008

I don't see what SAFETY would have to do with it in any way, unless you fall asleep during the long processing times.

Andrey · Jan 22, 2008

jim appleyard said:
Diluting a dev will give you larger grain, better sharpness, better tonality and control of highlights.

What do you mean by better tonality?

More contrast or less contrast? Sorry, I'm not up to snuff on the film linguo.

I don't know if I'd go 1+3 with 400 speed film in 35mm, that might be a bit too grainy.

Here's what I do FWIW: slow 35mm films, ISO 50 and under. D-76 1+3.
Medium speed 35mm, ISO 100, D-76 1+1
Fast 35mm, ISO 400 + D-76 1+0

Slow-medium 120 films, D-76 1+3
Fast 120 films, D-76 1+1

That's what works for me; a good compromise between sharpness & grain.

Ah-ha.

I see what you mean. So slow films have small crystals anyways, and don't benefit from stock developer. And fast films become too grainy with diluted developer, so it's better to use straight.

Nice. I guess I'll have to experiment and find out what I like.

I want to just shoot instead

I don't see what SAFETY would have to do with it in any way, unless you fall asleep during the long processing times.

lol

Or full strength and replenished.

This is how the developer was originally designed to be used. All the attributes of using diluted but far more economical.

So you mean that using replentished developer is comparable to using a diluted developer?

I don't really want to mess with replentished stuff. I process relatively small volumes and it's just too many variable for me to keep track of.

Thanks for the fast replies.

Andrey · Jan 22, 2008

PHOTOTONE said:
I don't see what SAFETY would have to do with it in any way, unless you fall asleep during the long processing times.

Actually, I'll just stick with what kodak recommends.

I've calculated, and it's 25 cents worth of developer per roll.

Looking at the difference in the development times, it's not worth it to "save" the developer.

BW is so cheap! :confused: Coming from digital, it's nothing.

Pinholemaster · Jan 22, 2008

Why?

Time is money. Better spent making pictures then watching a developing tank.

Andrey · Jan 22, 2008

Pinholemaster said:
Why?

Time is money. Better spent making pictures then watching a developing tank.

Yes, I agree.

I had a little epiphany after I ran the numbers.

Venchka · Jan 22, 2008

A related question about D-76 volume

A related question if I may:

If you follow Kodak's word to the letter, it takes 8 oz. of D-76 for each 80 sq. in. of film developed. Working at 1:1 this means 16 oz. of diluted D-76 per roll of film. That means using a tank large enough to hold the film & developer. If you go to 1:3, the volume of dilute D-76 goes to 32 oz. A lot of liguid for 1 roll of 135 or 4 sheets of 4x5 film.

I hope I haven't lost you. My question: Do you really need 8 oz. of D-76 per 80 sq. in. of film? Does anyone use less D-76 and if so, how much do you use?

Thanks!

Andrey · Jan 22, 2008

I don't really know the answer to your question, since I never developed at high dilutions yet.

But, I'd bet that kodak recommendations leave the developer in great excess. So the volume at 1:1 is still going to be just enough to cover the film spool, with no excess in the tank.

At least I would assume it is the case for dilutions up to 1:3. If you're using some crazy dilution like 1:15, then you might increase the overall volume of the developer, but I don't think you do it with 1:3.

Again, this is an assumption.

Venchka · Jan 22, 2008

Actually, my concern about the volume of diluted D-76, 1:3, is for 4x5 sheet film. It would be nice if I could develop more than 4 sheets in a quart of developer.

jim appleyard · Jan 22, 2008

Tonality: the scale of white to gray to black in a photo. That's my definition. I'll look to see what St. Ansel has to say. Anyway, diluting a dev gives you more shades of gray.

Mick Fagan · Jan 23, 2008

Venchka, I'm not 100% sure what you are calling a quart, as it could be 946ml or 1,136ml depending on whether you are using US or imperial measurements. That is a reasonably large amount of developer for 4 sheets of 4x5 film.

I develop most of my films in D76 1+1, recently I switched to a new batch of 4x5 FP4+ in a Jobo rotary processor. I always develop 4 sheets at a time and I use 300ml of solution.

The current batch of film is perfectly processed, with full tonal range using 300ml of D76 1+1 @ 21C for 11 minutes and 45 seconds and I'm printing on a grade 3 to grade 3 1/2 filtration setting.

Assuming you are using either a tray or deep tank to process your film, you may consider using D76 undiluted (neat) and re-use the developer with a replenishment of fresh solution after each batch of film(s) go through. This will certainly be a cheaper situation.

Mick.

AlanC · Jan 23, 2008

Venchka,

You ask about volumes of developer. My method with 5x4 FP4+ is to develop 4 sheets at a time in a divided tray using ID11 at a dilution of 1+3. I use 75ml. of developer - which is enough to do the job- and 225ml of water. Total 300mls. Lovely results. 18 minutes of constant but very gentle agitation yields negatives of normal contrast that print very easily.
18 minutes is a long time but I love the tonality of these negatives, especially when printed on Ilford Warmtone fibre. So I'm reluctant to go for a 1+1 dilution.
Hope this helps.

Alan Clark

Dietmar Wolf · Jan 23, 2008

I develop with 150ml ID11 in a 470ml tank. So roughly 1:2. Diluting ID11 adds grain and sharpness. Thats all.

I like to have a bit more grain. I take pic in 35mm and 6x6. So my 35mm pics have this "grainy" look, and my 6x6 dont look too clean (like digital )

Lee Shively · Jan 23, 2008

I have used D76 1:3 with 35mm and 120 HP5 quite a bit. It does give a slight increase in grain and a little better tonality than 1:1. It does require long processing times--I don't remember exactly but around 20 minutes or more at 68 degrees. I can get a negative that has just as good tonality using Rodinal at about half that time. For most uses, D76 1:1 does a great job and you can be finished in 7-8 minutes with most films.

D76 - 1:1 or 1:3?

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