D23 mixed , sodium sulfite - metol powder chemistry - opened canisters

Hello all,

I think rodinal and tanol are not me , they give result too much different from what my eyes want to see. I looked too many jpegs at internet and I returned to D23 ,my loved one since I saw first Ansel Adams catalog at 1989.

After quarter century of waiting , I bought one kilogram of sodium sulfite and I will buy metol 200 grams from ebay tomorrow.

I want to learn the rules of caring the opened canister powders , their shelf life and using D23 , is it one shot developer , what is the shelf life of mixed solution and your advises.

Can I trust to metol ebay sellers ?

Thank you for reading,

Umut

For me D-23 is cheaper but not so economical so I went with Divided D-23. Followed the instructions from Darkroom Cookbook and it all work like a charm.

Discard all the solution after 20 odd rolls.

HiUmut

The metol should come in a resealable plastic tub with a harmful Hazchm warning.

It should stay dry in tub for years.

I have bad skin problems so im very careful, but you should use rubber gloves when handling metol or D23.

The risk is of dermatitis or worse.

You need a balance to 0.1 gm easy nowadays mine is silly cheap and good to 0.01 gm.

Have fun Tom A on RFF uses D23 some times. Think he filters it don't recall exactly life he gets.

Ansell used a post borax bath sometimes...

Noel

There are many formulas to play with if you comfortable with Two bath.

I weigh powder chemicals out at the bottom of a bath tub so if there is a spill turn on faucet wash down drain.

Although the sulphite is annoying Id not mind a spill, metol Id not like.

I've a collection of plastic jar tops for shaking powders into.

With metol you need a pinch of sulphite into warm water then metol.

I don't use metol (often) using phenodine instead in PQ formula.

an alternate

http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/formulae/developers/devEKR-FG.htm

the other option H76

http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/formulae/developers/devD76_variants.htm

The absence of hydroquonine stops high lights burning...

When you use D-23 as a two bath developer it really isn't D-23 anymore. It's a new developer. If cost is a consideration then D-23 can be used in a replenished system using D-25R as the replenisher as Kodak recommends.

I would caution against leaving chemicals in their plastic shipping containers. I would transfer them to well sealed glass jars. I had a bad experience when if left $25 worth of Phenidone in a plastic jar. Within a year it had changed to a tarry mess. Other Phenidone in a glass jar is over 40 years old and still perfect.

Thank you for your all suggestions,

Take care,

Umut

D23 as a one shot is only practical if you mix-up lots and lots of stock or don't shoot that much film. I've tried one shot with 1:3 dilution but didn't like the long development times necessary. I concur with the divided D23 that you don't need to worry about replenishment before like 20 rolls. My general approach is 4 minutes each D23 and Sodium Carbonate. Increase or decrease time in D23 as needed, I found for TriX@320 that 3 minutes was about -1 development. I've been using D23 replenished (D23R) for a while also and make new stock after 500 ml of replenishment. The D23R tends to go bad on me (I don't know why) but when I keep the air space minimized with marbles this doesn't occur. The Metol and Sodium sulfite last a really long time under normal storage conditions.

Transfer the sodium sulfite to a glass container and keep it dry. It will last for years when not exposed to moisture and air..

Xmas said:

HiUmut

The metol should come in a resealable plastic tub with a harmful Hazchm warning.

It should stay dry in tub for years.

I have bad skin problems so im very careful, but you should use rubber gloves when handling metol or D23.

The risk is of dermatitis or worse.

You need a balance to 0.1 gm easy nowadays mine is silly cheap and good to 0.01 gm.

Have fun Tom A on RFF uses D23 some times. Think he filters it don't recall exactly life he gets.

Ansell used a post borax bath sometimes...

Noel

Click to expand...

Coming again to the risc of dermatologic deseases by using photo chemicals.
If you are strongly sensible with your scin you will soon may have additional problems from darkroom work.
Or let me say you will just find out if you get additional problems from this.
Most people don't care about and have
no problems at all.
But this is depending on individual (personal) conditions and on the kind of
chemicals.
In general some photo chemicals are much more harmfull than other typical used photo chems.
If you are still suffering on dermatitis from other reasons I would like to say : "
Handy off from any chemical darkroom expositions - safety first."
What is with the risc to normal people who haven't has any skin problems up to now - and they would like to experiment with some different developer agents ?
You have to notice first : There is indeed a serious risc but this main problem is to comercial use of photo chemicals.
It is depending to the dosis of exposition and most importance to the time of use.
So one could state it is only a question of the time - and you may have serious scinn deseases to over 90% ....
But this is from 8 hours work a day in a comercial facility after a period of 2 -4 years to people with allergenic pre disposition, sometimes after month of work. (The best is in this case after 3 days - therefore people are warned to let it be totaly and chance there profession)
In other cases you should become problems after 9 years?....15 years? 22 years? 31 years? The best case is you are
retired before but there is also a risc to get suddenly scin desease years after retirement...... to an age of 78....
And this is mostly caused from exposition with chemicals over decades during a job in a comercial lab.
AND THEREFORE THERE IS A RISC OF USING PHOTO CHEMICALS.
In a non proffessional use in private darkroom the same risc is on the hand less 98% in comparison.
But you have to notice at least it is never
at 0 %.
For me it is absolute enough to obtain some fundamentariely safety issues to all
chemicals.
And there is no reason to have panic in general.
EXEPTION : YOU ARE A PERSON OF AN
ALLERGENIC TYPE - but this you will normaly find out within some days.
Mostly on the first day.....

with regards

With metol you need a pinch of sulphite into warm water then metol.

This is a great advice - I wanted to mention it but you still did it here.
By using this method you avoid to lose a part of the oxigenic potential of the developer agend by mixing the solotion.
And you avoid to lose this reaction potential just before the development can start.
From my point of view metol is such a strong agent - it will work also in a good way without this method.
But better method is always the enemy of a good method ....

with regards

Most of the contact dermatitis issues with Metol stem from a contamination with another chemical, PPD, Paraphenylenediamine, also used as a film developer and in hair color. Most modern Metol is sourced in other ways and no longer has this issue but beware, if you get a rash a little hydrocortisone cream will clear it up.

Folks that run around the darkroom like their hair is on fire screaming "dangerous chemicals" need to remember that there are stronger and more toxic chemicals stored under your kitchen sink and in your laundry room. Just be safe and be sane. Dr. Richard Henry, in his book Controls in Black and White Photography, 2nd. ed. has a whole chapter on darkroom chemicals and working practices. Doc Henry was an MD and a research chemist and knows a thing or six about safe handling of chemicals. I reccommend his book, no APUGGER should be without it.

Any chemicals that you receive in tubs, bags, or other "casual" containers should be transferred to good glass jars with good tight lids. The only chemical I've ever had issue with was a jar of Kodak Potassium Bromide that ended up as a rock in the jar.

darkroommike said:

Most of the contact dermatitis issues with Metol stem from a contamination with another chemical, PPD, Paraphenylenediamine, also used as a film developer and in hair color. Most modern Metol is sourced in other ways and no longer has this issue but beware, if you get a rash a little hydrocortisone cream will clear it up.

Folks that run around the darkroom like their hair is on fire screaming "dangerous chemicals" need to remember that there are stronger and more toxic chemicals stored under your kitchen sink and in your laundry room. Just be safe and be sane. Dr. Richard Henry, in his book Controls in Black and White Photography, 2nd. ed. has a whole chapter on darkroom chemicals and working practices. Doc Henry was an MD and a research chemist and knows a thing or six about safe handling of chemicals. I reccommend his book, no APUGGER should be without it.

Any chemicals that you receive in tubs, bags, or other "casual" containers should be transferred to good glass jars with good tight lids. The only chemical I've ever had issue with was a jar of Kodak Potassium Bromide that ended up as a rock in the jar.

Click to expand...

Yes you mentioned it PPD is a compound of chemical the devil most like it.
The problem is different to a kind of persons depending to their sensitivity.
The most strictly security advices are neccessary when you have PPD in darkroom.
And the problem with alergic reactions is realy dramatic because you have PPD in a more less concentration in newspapers for example.
So if you get alergic reactions from darkroom you have to avoid any contact with PPD for a whole livetime.
And thats the dificulty : To be aware of newspapers and simular staff for livetime
.....
In addition it is a real poison with a less concentation as a lethal/toxic dosis.
But it is not more dangerous in concern/relation
of radioactive substances.
So the same protection should be also enough to the use of PPD in darkroom.
With contamination after work and the whole programm during work.......because it can be a nice developing agend.
But seriously - I would advice a workflow with PPD in darkroom as it goes to handle biohazard materials.
So the danger is under control. If you are able to get this chemical.Thats the most
problem with PPD.
By the time : In tatoo studios the official regulations are very small. And if you there get it, you have directly under your own scinn and not in your film emulsion during developement prozess.
In addition for livetime (most case with tatoos).
Well - in case of tatoos I am no friend of this in general but in darkroom there are
some formulations quite interesting like this here :




But if it goes to normal bw devellopment it is more smart to have some substitudes to PPD as you mentioned.


with regards

PS : To persons who are not familiar with
ABC Protection Clothes (from military exercises) - to have it also in darkroom
Kodak Xtol will be the right stuff..

Gerald C Koch said:

When you use D-23 as a two bath developer it really isn't D-23 anymore. It's a new developer. If cost is a consideration then D-23 can be used in a replenished system using D-25R as the replenisher as Kodak recommends.

I would caution against leaving chemicals in their plastic shipping containers. I would transfer them to well sealed glass jars. I had a bad experience when if left $25 worth of Phenidone in a plastic jar. Within a year it had changed to a tarry mess. Other Phenidone in a glass jar is over 40 years old and still perfect.

Click to expand...

Well this is a real question of witch kind of plastic. Therfore some different points of views are formulated in concern of this topic.
Some say : be aware with glass bottles.
Because there might be also a danger of
accidents. And this is not in concern of the danger caused from broken glass - it is more from the danger of chemical substances witch are released.
In case of a couple of broken glasses it is an additional a question of interacting chemicals.
To bw agends it is more less but I remember some reactions of c-41/e6 compounds witch you have to avoid absolutely. So nobody knows if the danger from glass bottles could be the more problem - only in worst case of course.Not with swaping D76 stock ..
with regards

The last time I checked my metol and sulfite they were still good, and I bought them years ago from Artcraft. I store them in the original plastic jars they were shipped in. I've compared my D23 negs to those developed in Xtol and TMaxRS developers and find little difference. However, my D23 testing showed I needed a bit more exposure to get the same results, TMY was best at 160 if my memory is correct. What I do like about D23 is being able to quickly make up only what was needed and not having bottles of stock solution aging on the shelf. I don't recall using stock solution as I always did 1 shot, but I had very predictable results at 1:1.