D23 developer in Australia

Sorrycharlie · Feb 23, 2020

Hi there, I’d like to use D23 and have been looking at prices online here in Australia.
Just want to check that my mathematics are correct.
Metol- 100g -$30
Sodium Sulphite 1kg - $30
Postage -$20
Total $80

So this would make 10 batches. 100g sodium in each batch and I’d have a bit of metol left over.

So 10 litres mixed at 1:1 is 20 litres divided by 600ml (what I use to develop 1 roll of 120) = 33 rolls of film which means $80 divided by 33 is
$2.40 per roll of 120.

This seems expensive to me? I currently just use HC110 but it works out much cheaper at about $0.70 cents a roll.

My question is, does anybody know a way to do it cheaper? I could only find the chems at an online store in Australia called Gold Street Studios.

I’m just wondering if there’s some cool secret that you can get this stuff at a pool chemical shop or something similar for much cheaper.

glbeas · Feb 23, 2020

Sodium sulphite is sold as a chlorine reducer at pool supply shops, you have to carefully check the msds as there are several compounds of a similar nature used for that as well.

Sorrycharlie · Feb 23, 2020

glbeas said:
Sodium sulphite is sold as a chlorine reducer at pool supply shops, you have to carefully check the msds as there are several compounds of a similar nature used for that as well.

Oh cool, that’s what I was hoping. Is there anything specific I should be looking for on the msds? Anything to avoid?

BobD · Feb 23, 2020

Adorama has sodium sulphite for $6/lb or 5 lbs for $20

Sorrycharlie · Feb 23, 2020

BobD said:
Adorama has sodium sulphite for $6/lb or 5 lbs for $20

Sorry, as I mentioned I’m in Australia so Adorama wouldn’t be any good for me. Thanks for the suggestion though. I might change the name of the topic to avoid confusion. Cheers

john_s · Feb 23, 2020

Sodium Sulphite is pretty useful stuff. Having some on hand might warrant a larger quantity. Maybe Vanbar in Melbourne is worth a look. I think they might be in Sydney too.

Christiaan Phleger · Feb 24, 2020

Yeah; nah. The issue with cheap sulfite for other uses is quality making sure its a proper grade for photo use. Hey its your negs man, but sulfite in reasonable grades is a common item and better discounts are found in bulk so 2-10 kilos will lower your projected cost. Same with Metol and that may be more cost effective to purchase from a known proper photo supplier or chemical supply house even with shipping. Any cheaper developer is probably home brew Parodinal especially in 'enough for a lifetime quantities'. I've known guys that had no problems but for me my negs are everything and cheaping out on low grade sulfite doesn't make sense.

revdoc · Feb 24, 2020

Well, Vanbar list Metol, but I doubt they'd be any cheaper than Gold Street.

For very cheap, you can buy metol on eBay, but the product might be iffy.

Christiaan Phleger · Feb 24, 2020

Whats the shipping and such for photographers formulary?

mpirie · Feb 24, 2020

I was in a similar quandary recently, but the prospect of not being able to find pre-made developers at the whim of the manufacturer/importer made me buy the raw chemicals i need to make several different developers should i wish to.

So although the cost of the chemical components is more expensive than pre-made devs like HC-110 (especially outside the US), at least i know i can make D-23 or Pyrocat HD if and when i need to.

It's not a guarantee, but it makes me more comfortable.

Mike

RalphLambrecht · Feb 24, 2020

Sorrycharlie said:
Hi there, I’d like to use D23 and have been looking at prices online here in Australia.
Just want to check that my mathematics are correct.
Metol- 100g -$30
Sodium Sulphite 1kg - $30
Postage -$20
Total $80

So this would make 10 batches. 100g sodium in each batch and I’d have a bit of metol left over.

So 10 litres mixed at 1:1 is 20 litres divided by 600ml (what I use to develop 1 roll of 120) = 33 rolls of film which means $80 divided by 33 is
$2.40 per roll of 120.

This seems expensive to me? I currently just use HC110 but it works out much cheaper at about $0.70 cents a roll.

My question is, does anybody know a way to do it cheaper? I could only find the chems at an online store in Australia called Gold Street Studios.

I’m just wondering if there’s some cool secret that you can get this stuff at a pool chemical shop or something similar for much cheaper.

Is it really a matter of $$$?

markbau · Feb 24, 2020

I like to support local business when I can, Elie (Gold Street Studios), is one of the only suppliers in Australia of photo chemicals, if we don't support her, and other local companies, they will disappear and then be left with importing the stuff from overseas. Gold Street also make alternative process kits, the only place in Australia that does as far as I know, so I say, support a local business, and anyhow, you might find it a bit cheaper overseas but with the Oz dollar in freefall and shipping costs, I doubt it would actually be cheaper.

Patrick Robert James · Feb 24, 2020

Using it 1:1 and discarding it is pretty wasteful. You can reuse it with replenishment. That will get you a lot more rolls through it and frankly better quality if the reason why you want to use it is for the tonality of D23.

Iif you are diluting it for sharpness (I'd guess), and using it one shot, you'd be better off adding Carbonate to the mix and going the Beutler's route.

I guess the question is what are you trying to achieve?

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 24, 2020

Or you could scrap D23, and mix up caffenol. The three ingredients should be easily sourced... instant coffee, ascorbic acid (vit C), washing soda (baking soda can be substituted).

grahamp · Feb 24, 2020

I make my own developer because my darkroom time comes in fits and starts - better to make it when I need it than try to keep it for an uncertain time.

If you want D23, or one of the two-bath derivatives, you have to make it (which I do).

Development cost is part of the cost of the film - exposed film is useless without development, after all.

Buying in bulk saves a little, especially on shipping, so if you can find someone locally who would split an order you could trim a little from the cost.

awty · Feb 24, 2020

Whats the benefits of D23 over D76?

Maris · Feb 24, 2020

Yikes, $2.40 a roll with home made D23. I go the cheap way with Xtol run as a replenished developer at 30 cents per roll.

RalphLambrecht · Feb 24, 2020

awty said:
Whats the benefits of D23 over D76?

It's all subjective.

awty · Feb 24, 2020

RalphLambrecht said:
It's all subjective.

Thanks, was just checking. I find film developing the most uninteresting part of photography, about as interesting as doing laundry. Still feel its necessary to be in the know.

Sorrycharlie · Feb 24, 2020

Thanks for all the replies.

I don't want to give the wrong impression, I'm all for supporting local businesses. I try and buy things as local first if I can and if not, then I buy them online in Australia. I have bought things from Gold Street Studios before and would love to support them, I was merely seeing if anybody had any cheaper alternatives when buying in bulk. I loved supporting The Film Bloke up until recently when the online store has closed I have bought all of my film supplies as locally as I can even though it costs more as I believe you vote with your money. But with something like developer, I enjoy the practice of chemistry and I love to experiment.

I don't think it's unreasonable to try and find a cheaper way to get D23 than $2.40 per roll???

That seems very expensive to me and although it's not all about money, at some point you have to draw a line.

Mick Fagan · Feb 24, 2020

I would suggest you telephone Vanbar in Melbourne and have a list of what your requirements are ready to hand. But before you do telephone, work out the expected usage ratio wise of the chemicals you wish to purchase. Then ask what is the most economical way to purchase their chemicals.

In the case of Sodium Sulphite, I purchase it in 25kg bags from Vanbar. Trust me when I say, this brings the price down rather dramatically.

Vanbar purchase this product in 25kg bags, so all they need to do if you order a 25kg bag, is roll out the bag they rolled into their bulk storage facility. I then decant this to roughly 3kg containers I have in the darkroom. Current pricing for Sodium Sulphite is $15.40 inc. GST but this is for 25kg which equals a $385.00 outlay. From 3 to 24kg it is $17.60 per kg, which is probably where you would be at. I bought my last lot from Vanbar for roughly 50% of the current price, I'm only halfway through after some years.

I purchase Hydroquinone in 1kg lots from Vanbar, this is about the cheapest way to purchase it. I fully realise that this means you are purchasing in some cases, years of chemistry, but it doesn't go off. My oldest stuff is a job lot I bought in 1992, all of it works beautifully.

Vanbar will realistically make up any quantity of chemistry that you wish for, they are overall very good for the darkroom worker. Some chemistry can be purchased elsewhere, pool suppliers, hardware stores and even local pharmacies have some stuff cheaper than anywhere else. Ascorbic acid comes to mind with the pharmacist purchases.

Getting it up to you is another matter, but realistically you may be able to get someone to bring stuff up to you somehow.

Mick.

Mick Fagan · Feb 24, 2020

Forgot to mention, their bagged bulk stuff, is in waterproof and essentially airtight bags, so transportation and/or keeping is not a problem.

For what it's worth, my approximate per roll costs were 14c AUD a roll, but after my last bulk purchase some years ago, the current price per roll is 16c AUD a roll with rotary processing or 29c AUD inversion processing, using Jobo 1500 series tanks.

I essentially use D76 1:1 for everything, but sometimes I mix up other stuff. I also mix my own paper developer and if you think bulk chemistry for film is good, wait until you use bulk chemistry for paper developer.

Fixer is cheapest when bought in liquid form in 4 litre containers locally.

I'm so tight, I squeak when I walk.

Mick.

Christiaan Phleger · Feb 24, 2020

My D-23 negs look different from my D-76 negs and I like those differences. Sometimes in very strong Hawaii light sometimes what seems like a 'Hydroquinone Snap' of extra highlight sparkle of D-76 makes negs that go a bit hard to scan or print whereas D-23 works how I want to tame that top end.
I really don't think there could be any cheaper developer to use doing homebrew but you could shave off 20% of the Sodium Sulfite used (80g) and really stretch out that 25 kilo bag another few years.

D23 developer in Australia

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