D-76 Expired?

runswithsizzers · Aug 7, 2019

Kodak says a stock solution of D-76 is good for 6 months in full containers, but only 2 months in half-full containers.

I have a gallon jug which is about 3/4ths full and which is almost 4 months old.

The roll of 35mm Kentmere 100 I want to develop was shot for the purpose of testing a camera that was given to me. So I am not really concerned about having perfectly developed negatives, but they do need to be good enough for me to be sure the camera is working properly.

Should I:
a. dump it and mix fresh?
b. give it a try?
c. somehow test the developer before using it?

If "c." I am uncertain how to procede. My experience with developing film is limited to one semester in a college class darkroom. This will be my first attempt to develop negatives at home. I don't have a dark room, so any light-limited procedures will have to be done in a changing bag.

In searching for a procedure telling me how to test developer, I found a suggestion to "Dip in some fogged film to see if it develops to Dmax in the prescribed time."

For "fogged film" can I use the leader from the roll of 35mm I want to process?

If I open the canister (in my changing bag) and cut off the first 6" of leader - then what? I have only one developing canister, so I need to go ahead and wind the film on the reel and put it in the canister before taking my arms out of the changing bag, right?

Can I then, in normal room light, just dip the film leader in developer and see how long it takes to turn black? Anything else?

Is it possible that the developer might be good enough to turn the test strip black, but still might not be good enough to produce negatives of normal density and contrast?

KN4SMF · Aug 7, 2019

I've always just looked at the color of the stock solution. If you can see any yellowing going on, best to toss it.

reddesert · Aug 7, 2019

Don't use the film that is already wound into the canister. Take another roll of film and trim a couple inches off the leader. You can use scissors to reshape a new leader so that you can use that roll later. Now develop, stop and fix that couple-inch strip to see if it is black. You should do the stop and fix as well, to get rid of the undeveloped silver halide. It's probably fine for the purposes of developing a test roll, but without knowing what your storage conditions are like, no one can really say without a test.

Also, for these reasons, when I made stock solution I would put it in plastic bottles that could be squeezed to get most of the air out.

runswithsizzers · Aug 7, 2019

reddesert said:
Don't use the film that is already wound into the canister. Take another roll of film and trim a couple inches off the leader. You can use scissors to reshape a new leader so that you can use that roll later. Now develop, stop and fix that couple-inch strip to see if it is black. You should do the stop and fix as well, to get rid of the undeveloped silver halide. It's probably fine for the purposes of developing a test roll, but without knowing what your storage conditions are like, no one can really say without a test.

Also, for these reasons, when I made stock solution I would put it in plastic bottles that could be squeezed to get most of the air out.

Thanks for your reply. Going forward, I have purchased four one-quart bottles which I will use to aliquot the gallon of D-76 as soon as I mix the next batch. The only reason I am considering using the questionable batch is because it may be a while before the next time I have negatives to develop, and I would prefer to wait until then to mix a fresh gallon. As for storage of the 3-month-old batch, it has been in a one-gallon Delta Datatainer brand brown plastic jug at room temp (70-75F = 21-24C). The jug was full for the first week of the 3 months, then 3/4 full for the next 16 weeks, until now.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I can't figure out why there would be be any difference between using the leader from the roll I have already exposed versus using the leader from an unexposed roll. Both have received full exposure and they are equal in that respect, right?

And what additional information/benefit will be gained by fixing the test strip? Is "black" a postive result - or do I somehow have to make a value judgement, "Is this black black enough?"

What am I missing here?

Just to be clear, I can develop my test strip under room light, right?

runswithsizzers · Aug 7, 2019

Actually, I miscalculated the age of the developer. At first, I thought it was just under 3 months old, but in fact, it's more like 4 months, so I am going to dump it and start over.

Thanks to those who replied.

DREW WILEY · Aug 7, 2019

Get a number of smaller glass bottles so that they can be filled to the brim air-free. Those thin plastic Delta bottles are permeable to oxygenation even full. D76 is so cheap why gamble?

KN4SMF · Aug 7, 2019

4 months is nothing. I wouldn't have thrown it out.

runswithsizzers · Aug 7, 2019

KN4SMF said:
4 months is nothing. I wouldn't have thrown it out.

Haven't dumped it yet. I might still use it if I can confirm it's OK. But the exact step-by-step procedure for testing film developer - and how to interpret the result - are still something of a mystery to me.

DREW WILEY · Aug 7, 2019

D76 can handle a certain amount of oxidation and still "work", but loses some of its predictability in terms of the exact contrast it will render. I'd throw it out in a heartbeat. Kinda like driving around on a temporary spare tire. Sure, it works, but for how long?

KN4SMF · Aug 7, 2019

If it's still clear and not yellowed to any degree you can notice, then it's good enough for me. As for me, I don't even start to consider the matter for a year.

reddesert · Aug 7, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
I am not trying to be argumentative, but I can't figure out why there would be be any difference between using the leader from the roll I have already exposed versus using the leader from an unexposed roll. Both have received full exposure and they are equal in that respect, right?

And what additional information/benefit will be gained by fixing the test strip? Is "black" a postive result - or do I somehow have to make a value judgement, "Is this black black enough?"

What am I missing here?

I'm assuming you wound the leader of the exposed roll back into the canister, since you were asking what to do with the rest of the film while in the changing bag. The reason to use the leader of a new roll is so you don't have to pop open the canister.

You should fix the test strip for two reasons. First, unfixed film is semi-opaque due to silver halides, anti-halation backing, etc. You can't tell if the film is really clear or dark until you fix it to clear out the undeveloped silver halides and dissolve off the backing. Second, when doing a test, one should always do the test in exactly the same process you'll use on the real thing.

runswithsizzers · Aug 7, 2019

reddesert said:
I'm assuming you wound the leader of the exposed roll back into the canister, since you were asking what to do with the rest of the film while in the changing bag. The reason to use the leader of a new roll is so you don't have to pop open the canister.

You should fix the test strip for two reasons. First, unfixed film is semi-opaque due to silver halides, anti-halation backing, etc. You can't tell if the film is really clear or dark until you fix it to clear out the undeveloped silver halides and dissolve off the backing. Second, when doing a test, one should always do the test in exactly the same process you'll use on the real thing.

Ahh! Got it.

NB23 · Aug 7, 2019

The big picture is that your question is a 7 Dollars and 46 Cents question (9.95*3/4=7.46$).

RalphLambrecht · Aug 7, 2019

reddesert said:
Don't use the film that is already wound into the canister. Take another roll of film and trim a couple inches off the leader. You can use scissors to reshape a new leader so that you can use that roll later. Now develop, stop and fix that couple-inch strip to see if it is black. You should do the stop and fix as well, to get rid of the undeveloped silver halide. It's probably fine for the purposes of developing a test roll, but without knowing what your storage conditions are like, no one can really say without a test.

Also, for these reasons, when I made stock solution I would put it in plastic bottles that could be squeezed to get most of the air out.

these bottles are hard to clean and I'm never sure they are sealed properly when letting go after squeezing.brown glass bottles in varies sizes are best, I think.

jim10219 · Aug 7, 2019

I use old soda bottles, that way I can squeeze all of the air out. I've gotten 8 months from D76, though after about 6 months, you have to extend the developing time. They're cheap and work very well. I use different shaped bottles (like Coke, Sprite, Dr. Pepper) for different chemicals so I know what's in them, even in a dark room. That's come in handy once when I accidentally dumped the fixer instead of the wash tray. They're one time use though. Once you start crushing them, they lose some integrity.

MattKing · Aug 7, 2019

Do a leader test to check if the D76 is still alive.
If you are testing whether the camera's shutter is working and the camera is focusing properly, them partially oxidized but still active D76 should be fine for the purpose. You should be able to see any problems, because contrast and shadow density of the negatives isn't particularly important when checking those concerns.
If you are trying to check the exposure accuracy of the camera's meter, or are worried about contrast reducing flare, then you should use fresh developer.

Agulliver · Aug 8, 2019

I'd also do a test strip, develop and fix. Also if the D76 looks and smells OK, then it probably is OK. If it smells OK then at worst it has lost a little potency and you might like to add 30s to a minute to your development times.

mklw1954 · Aug 10, 2019

I also use soda bottles; I use plain seltzer water bottles as they have no residual odor (don't know if that affects anything). They are PET plastic that can be squeezed to eliminate headspace air and stored in the dark. This provides an excellent barrier to air/oxygen intrusion, just as it is a barrier to carbonation loss in soda. A gallon is 3.8 liters so you need 4-1 liter plastic bottles; the bottle containing 0.8 liters has be squeezed a lot but can be. You'd need smaller PET bottles as well if you are using D76 1:1 for developing but if you are using D76 stock solution you can reuse the entire liter and develop 4 rolls of 135-36 or 120 film. However, I've found if I develop less than the four rolls and then don't develop the remaining rolls within a few weeks, the stock solution gets cloudy and appears to etch the bottle, so 6 months storage in a fully stoppered bottle doesn't apply to a partially used working solution. Unused solution will last the 6 months, perhaps more.

runswithsizzers · Aug 10, 2019

Thanks for all the replies. I ended up pouring the old batch of D-76 down the drain. I noticed it had definitely turned slightly yellowish. The freshly mixed batch worked fine, and the camera seems to be exposing properly <negatives here>

After I mixed up the fresh gallon of D-76, I aliquoted it into four 1-liter black plastic bottles I got from B&H <link here> These are the Photographers' Formulary brand, marked as "#2 HDPE" on the bottom. I feel stupid buying plastic bottles when so many are thrown away, but ... that's what I did. I dated the three full bottles as expiring in 6-months, per Kodak's recommendation, and the partial bottle as expiring in 2 months. So far, I am mixing a working solution of D-76 at 1+1 just before developing, and using it only once.

Thanks again!

Mick Fagan · Aug 12, 2019

You can store liquid stock developer in glass jars of almost any kind, I've been doing that for decades now. I also use glass marbles, the last batch I bought were at a school fete around 30 years ago. The glass marbles are used to displace air from the top of the liquid.

The glass jars I currently use and have used for the last 25 years, are those with lids that have a plastic seal on the inside of the lid.

You may wish to use a funnel and coffee filter to filter out small solids and any stuff floating in the stock solution, immediately prior to mixing with water for your dilution, or use straight at full strength.

Mick.

Wallendo · Aug 12, 2019

Back when I used D-76 almost exclusively I stored the chemical in one quart glass "canning" jars which are readily available in most supermarkets. 1 liter jars would be ideal but are not readily available in the US.
D-76 keeps quite well. There may be some minor changes in the developer after the published limits are reached, but it is still useful, especially if just testing a new camera.
I do have one unrelated suggestion. In the past, I used to test new-to-me cameras and lenses with old film and whatever developer I had handy. I now tend to test with fresh brand-name film and up-to-date developer. I found that if there were issues with the negatives, there were times it was hard to pin the blame of the camera, developer, or film. Kentmere is a decent film for this purpose, however, assuming this is a film with which you are familiar.

D-76 Expired?

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