D-19 - what do you think of this formula?

traveler_101 · Apr 30, 2019

Anyone have experience with this developer? Bear with me this is a bit convoluted. (I am working with 135 film, by the way).

1. I normally develop with D-76 and bought D-19 (high contrast developer on a lark). I have some T-MAX 100 rolls leftover. Have always been ambivalent about T-MAX but then was thinking perhaps I could use D-19 with one of these rolls.
2. Found this formula on the Massive Development chart for Ilford Delta 100 but that is very similar to T-MAX isn't it?
Ilford Delta 100 Pro D-19 1+1 100 6 minutes 20C [notes: continuous slow and gentle agitation]
3. Found this formula on FilmDev. : Fuji Neopan 100 in Kodak D-19 1+1 7 minutes at 20°C/68.0° [Notes Presoak 2 minutes
Agitation - 1st minute constant, then 10 second every minute].
4.Don't know a thing about Neopan, except that it is no longer available, but look at this nice image with neopan using this formula: https://www.flickr.com/photos/56563485@N05/31318782832

I am up for a little experimenting - would either of these formulas be possible wit T-Max 100?

trendland · Apr 30, 2019

traveler_101 said:
Anyone have experience with this developer? Bear with me this is a bit convoluted. (I am working with 135 film, by the way).

1. I normally develop with D-76 and bought D-19 (high contrast developer on a lark). I have some T-MAX 100 rolls leftover. Have always been ambivalent about T-MAX but then was thinking perhaps I could use D-19 with one of these rolls.
2. Found this formula on the Massive Development chart for Ilford Delta 100 but that is very similar to T-MAX isn't it?
Ilford Delta 100 Pro D-19 1+1 100 6 minutes 20C [notes: continuous slow and gentle agitation]
3. Found this formula on FilmDev. : Fuji Neopan 100 in Kodak D-19 1+1 7 minutes at 20°C/68.0° [Notes Presoak 2 minutes
Agitation - 1st minute constant, then 10 second every minute].
4.Don't know a thing about Neopan, except that it is no longer available, but look at this nice image with neopan using this formula: https://www.flickr.com/photos/56563485@N05/31318782832

I am up for a little experimenting - would either of these formulas be possible wit T-Max 100?

Yeah - D19 is oldfashioned stuff I remember well! What I like from D19 is the very simple formula!
I remember a development (hope I did not mix it from bad remind)!

It was Foma Retrosoft 320 a film with a bit low contrast characteristic a film from "soft" characteristic Retro look! To push this film was not intended (a realy grained emulsion)!
Therefore the D19 - it worked realy good! To higher contrasts!

with regards

BTW : How do you read my english - is it understandable ?

trendland · Apr 30, 2019

Tmax 100 would work with 85 % of all photographic formulas real good and quite good with the rest! You should try to explain what a good developer should do?
What is your preference? Higher contrast? Higher grain size? Higher speed?
Guess all of it right

with regards

traveler_101 · Apr 30, 2019

Yes, thanks, old fashioned = good in my book. Look - yes higher contrast but mainly to achieve a moodiness (see photo in original post). II want to shoot portrait set or perhaps a street scene with dark shadows. No I don't want to emphasise grain - to the contrary i would like it to look smooth - and that should mean less agitation right?

trendland · Apr 30, 2019

traveler_101 said:
Yes, thanks, old fashioned = good in my book. Look - yes higher contrast but mainly to achieve a moodiness (see photo in original post). II want to shoot portrait set or perhaps a street scene with dark shadows. No I don't want to emphasise grain - to the contrary i would like it to look smooth - and that should mean less agitation right?

Less agitation - I am not realy sure about? But from reading instruction of agitation procedure
I had my own problems - I would not do like recomanded - but can't remember right my procedure
with D19 (Guess I ignored agitation in total! No seriously first 30s permanent agitation after this 15sec. intervall - the last min. permanent agitation - but don't ASK me why!
That 's my agitation!

with regards

trendland · Apr 30, 2019

traveler_101 said:
Yes, thanks, old fashioned = good in my book. Look - yes higher contrast but mainly to achieve a moodiness (see photo in original post). II want to shoot portrait set or perhaps a street scene with dark shadows. No I don't want to emphasise grain - to the contrary i would like it to look smooth - and that should mean less agitation right?

smouth in regards of small grain?

darkroommike · Apr 30, 2019

Used to use D-19 from time to time to process aerial negatives, it produces a fairly contrasty negative. I was also used as an Xray Film developer. So no real surprises. You can achieve similar results using D-72 or Dektol.

traveler_101 · Apr 30, 2019

Agitation - hell and confusion. I've read an old thread here in which there was virtual unanimity in regards to the need for agitation. Agitation is the holy grail according to these guys. At the same time, I have read thread after thread with people advocating stand development and posting nice results. I just came out of the bathroom using D-76 1+1 on Adox Silvermax. So I tried reduced agitation by comparison to what I normally do. In this case just 15 secs to start, followed by 1 agitation every 15 seconds - but very, very gentley. Then for fear of under-development I increased time by 15%. They really look nice but I think I over-developed.

Yes, "smooth" to me means minimal grain. This is why I thought maybe D-19 would be better to increase contrast without increasing grain - as compared to say Rodinal. BUT if D-19 = Dektol then it will probably be very harsh.

Pentode · Apr 30, 2019

My only experience with D-19 was to reverse-process copy film and, yes, it is a high-contrast developer.

Kodak made developers in multiple contrast ranges and, I believe, D-19 was one notch up from D-76 with D-23 being lowest, D-76 being higher, D-19 even higher and D-11 higher still.

I’m pretty sure D-19 was not typically diluted but was used straight for fairly short developing times delivering high contrast quickly. I think it can also be used for pushing. When I used it with copy film the grain was invisible but that’s typical of copy film and reversal processing is kind of a different animal anyway.

T-max 100 is a very fine grained film so I don’t expect you’d have a lot of trouble with grain but T-max also has pretty high contrast in the highlights, which could get a little intense in D-19.

I’d try it at box speed in D-19 1:1 for 5 minutes or a little longer as a starting point and see where that puts you. For agitation I’d use 30 seconds of continuous, gentle agitation and then three gentle inversions per minute afterwards. That should give you a reasonable starting point and you can adjust from there.

MattKing · Apr 30, 2019

traveler_101 said:
So I tried reduced agitation by comparison to what I normally do. In this case just 15 secs to start, followed by 1 agitation every 15 seconds - but very, very gentley. Then for fear of under-development I increased time by 15%. They really look nice but I think I over-developed.

That is pretty close to normal agitation.
Reduced agitation/semi-stand development/stand development involves much less frequent agitation, and often brings on problems related to evenness of development, due to the ebb and flow of the developer arising from the chemical reactions themselves.

traveler_101 · May 1, 2019

Pentode said:
My only experience with D-19 was to reverse-process copy film and, yes, it is a high-contrast developer.

Kodak made developers in multiple contrast ranges and, I believe, D-19 was one notch up from D-76 with D-23 being lowest, D-76 being higher, D-19 even higher and D-11 higher still.

I’m pretty sure D-19 was not typically diluted but was used straight for fairly short developing times delivering high contrast quickly. I think it can also be used for pushing. When I used it with copy film the grain was invisible but that’s typical of copy film and reversal processing is kind of a different animal anyway.

T-max 100 is a very fine grained film so I don’t expect you’d have a lot of trouble with grain but T-max also has pretty high contrast in the highlights, which could get a little intense in D-19.

I’d try it at box speed in D-19 1:1 for 5 minutes or a little longer as a starting point and see where that puts you. For agitation I’d use 30 seconds of continuous, gentle agitation and then three gentle inversions per minute afterwards. That should give you a reasonable starting point and you can adjust from there.

I guess if you used D-19 stock you could develop in 3.5 minutes! 5 to 5.5 at 1+1 strength sounds good. Thanks for your help.

MattKing said:
That is pretty close to normal agitation.
Reduced agitation/semi-stand development/stand development involves much less frequent agitation, and often brings on problems related to evenness of development, due to the ebb and flow of the developer arising from the chemical reactions themselves.

Yes near normal, I had wanted to try stand or I guess semi-stand, but then read that you often end up with streaks and blotches. I wonder what all the people using stand development would say about that. There must be a difference of opinion. Anyway, I chickened out and came up with a reduced agitation scheme. It will be interesting now to compare these negatives with other Silvermax negatives using stock and my standard agitation regime. I bet there isn't all that much difference.

Ian Grant · May 1, 2019

I mixed up some Ilford ID-72 a couple of months ago to use as a J=High contrast developer with Kodak Elite paper. ID-72 is the PQ variant of Ilford ID-19/Kodak D19. As others say use it 1+1 or even 1+3 and do some testing, but it is an X-ray. paper, and Aerial film developer designed for high contrast.

Ian

trendland · May 1, 2019

traveler_101 said:
Yes, thanks, old fashioned = good in my book. Look - yes higher contrast but mainly to achieve a moodiness (see photo in original post). II want to shoot portrait set or perhaps a street scene with dark shadows. No I don't want to emphasise grain - to the contrary i would like it to look smooth - and that should mean less agitation right?

OK - (according to my notes) !

D19 formula :
water (50degreeC)................................750ml.
Kodak Elon (Metol)..............................1g.
Sodium Sulfite (Anhydrous)....................75g.
Hydroquinone............................................9g.
Sodium Carbonate....(1-Hydr.)................30g.
Potassium Bromide (Anhydrous)..............5g.
Cold Water to make...........................1000ml.

source : Bruce Hapeman (EK)!

Examples :

How to proceed with Tmax 100 now?

In short :

1) box speed ISO 100
2) development is : D19 delution 1:3 , 8min , 20C !

Bon Chance

Andrew O'Neill · May 1, 2019

I've mixed it up from scratch and developed HP5 8x10 sheets in order to get enough contrast for carbon transfer printing. I used it 1+1 to 1+3. Worked really well. I'm confident it'll work fine with TMX100... but I would use it diluted. Perhaps 1+3.

trendland · May 1, 2019

Andrew O'Neill said:
I've mixed it up from scratch and developed HP5 8x10 sheets in order to get enough contrast for carbon transfer printing. I used it 1+1 to 1+3. Worked really well. I'm confident it'll work fine with TMX100... but I would use it diluted. Perhaps 1+3.

+ 1 (1:3 works better with Tmax)

with regards

Andrew O'Neill · May 1, 2019

trendland said:
+ 1 (1:3 works better with Tmax)

with regards

I thought so... as it does with FP4 and Delta 100.

Ian Grant · May 1, 2019

trendland said:
OK - (according to my notes) !

D19 formula :
water (50degreeC)................................750ml.
Kodak Elon (Metol)..............................1g.
Sodium Sulfite (Anhydrous)....................75g.
Hydroquinone............................................9g.
Sodium Carbonate....(1-Hydr.)................30g.
Potassium Bromide (Anhydrous)..............5g.
Cold Water to make...........................1000ml.

source : Bruce Hapeman (EK)

How to proceed with Tmax 100 now?

In short :

1) box speed ISO 100
2) development is : D19 delution 1:3 , 8min , 20C !

That's not the formula for D19, that's Kodak D-11 which was a General Purpose contrast developer designed to be used 1+3 for 14mins.

I have some boxes of Kodak Ltd D19b which was the revised D19 formula, it's D19b that's identical to Ilford ID-19.

Ian

Andrew O'Neill · May 1, 2019

Ian is correct. It is D-11.

D-19:
Water approx 50C 500ml
Metol 2g
Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 90g
Hydroquinone 8g
Sodium Carbonate (monohydrate*) 52.5g
Potassium Bromide 5g
Water to make 1000ml

They are very similar.

Ian Grant · May 1, 2019

D19b /Ilford ID-19

Water approx 50C 500ml
Metol 2.2g
Sodium Sulfite (anhyd) 72g
Hydroquinone 8.8g
Sodium Carbonate (anhyd) 48g
Potassium Bromide 4g
Water to make 1 litre

Ian

trendland · May 1, 2019

Ian Grant said:
That's not the formula for D19, that's Kodak D-11 which was a General Purpose contrast developer designed to be used 1+3 for 14mins.

I have some boxes of Kodak Ltd D19b which was the revised D19 formula, it's D19b that's identical to Ilford ID-19.

Ian

Right Ian -sorry I mixed it!
(I had written notes: D8 and D11 and D19 ) and was thinking : This must be D19!
No it was D11....

with regards

traveler_101 · May 1, 2019

1+3 in a 600ml tank would mean 150ml of developer. Is that enough? I remember that Kodak specified 225ml of D-76 per roll. Obviously D-19 is a more active developer so I suppose it is alright.

This is what is listed for D-19 on B&H site (same as above). It is now marketed through Photographers' Formulary - whatever that is.

Metol (2g)
Sodium Sulfite (90g)
Hydroquinone (8g)
Sodium Carbonate (Monohydrate, 52.5g)
Potassium Bromide (5g)

trendland · May 2, 2019

traveler_101 said:
1+3 in a 600ml tank would mean 150ml of developer. Is that enough? I remember that Kodak specified 225ml of D-76 per roll. Obviously D-19 is a more active developer so I suppose it is alright.

This is what is listed for D-19 on B&H site (same as above). It is now marketed through Photographers' Formulary - whatever that is.

Metol (2g)

Sodium Sulfite (90g)

Hydroquinone (8g)

Sodium Carbonate (Monohydrate, 52.5g)

Potassium Bromide (5g)

1:3 or 1+3 (the last value is looking more clear indeed) is such a kind of official dilution!
So if your tank is confortable with 600ml (it has to be filled up enough - so that developer reached the film complete) it is well done!
BTW : I checked the time, it is correct for tmax 100 (8min. 1+3 20degreeC) with D19!
Just the formula I gave was NOT D19 - it was the formula for D11!
But don't care Ian Grant and David O'Neill cleared it up - and your chemistry is ready made
D19 (photographers formulary) ?

times I gave from my notes are correct for D19!

with regards

trendland · May 2, 2019

traveler_101 said:
This is what is listed for D-19 on B&H site (same as above). It is now marketed through Photographers' Formulary - whatever that is.

Metol (2g)

Sodium Sulfite (90g)

Hydroquinone (8g)

Sodium Carbonate (Monohydrate, 52.5g)

Potassium Bromide (5g)

Yes that is looking good -I have trouble with my notes all is written on paper btw - years ago...
And I can't recognize wich is wich (next I would give is D8 then - and not D19)

But looking what David O'Neill and Ian stated the only difference here (Sodium Carbonate)
is caused from difference between monohydate and anhyd. condition - and that is also correct!

with regards

Ian Grant · May 2, 2019

The figure I've always seen and used is 125ml of stock D76/ID-11 developer per 80sq inches of film either used FS in a rotary processor or 1+1 to 4+3. The 250ml is the minimum quantity of D76/ID-11 at 1+1 per 80sq inches. (1 roll 35mm or 120, 4 sheets 5x4 etc).

Ian.

trendland · May 2, 2019

Ian Grant said:
The figure I've always seen and used is 125ml of stock D76/ID-11 developer per 80sq inches of film either used FS in a rotary processor or 1+1 to 4+3. The 250ml is the minimum quantity of D76/ID-11 at 1+1 per 80sq inches. (1 roll 35mm or 120, 4 sheets 5x4 etc).

Ian.

D76 can be used with higher dilution of course Ian! I tryed it some years ago because I want
D76 as a derivate low contrast developer!
So 1+3 is the max. official recomanded dilution (if I am correct - just out of remind)
I tryed 1 + 4 with good results! Then 1 + 5 with nearly good results!
At 1 + 8 the results came bad (from tonals) but that I intended to try out =low contrast!
1 : 10 or 1 : 16 (I am not sure) was the last dilution I tryed (the developer died during development) but it has developed something.....!
So it may be possible (from my point) to come with less D76 to results AS recomanded!
But for sure : The more less chemistry is in play - the more intended characteristics has a lost
also! But there should be a "reserve" from value of chems within recomandation!
From my point ~ 50%!
with regards

PS : D76 diluted 1+4 is working very fine for me = the prove! But at 1+4 you may be also within
min. value of chems recomanded!

D-19 - what do you think of this formula?

traveler_101

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D-19 - what do you think of this formula?

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