Cyanotype washing out

[WetMogwai]

I'm having some trouble with Cyanotypes washing out in the rinse. Using the same glass and paper (Arches hot press), in direct sunlight, I can print in Palladium and get a good exposure in about 8-12 minutes. The person who taught me to do both was able to get good exposures in the same amount of time with his light source, so I expected the same thing. I've tried with tap and distilled water for mixing the chemicals. Before washing, the print looks good. After a few minutes in running water, it is mostly washed out. I just did a 12 minute exposure in the sun and almost no image remains about 10 minutes into the wash. My first thought was that the paper was not good, but this one seems to generally be considered a good one for iron-based processes. I tried switching to distilled water because I thought my tap water might be bad for it, but that had no effect. What could I be doing wrong?

 

[tomharrison]

You just need a longer exposure I had the same problem last week using a new light source in our university darkroom. The exposures turned out to be more than double what I expected.

All the best,
Tom

 

[WetMogwai]

I've tried that. I've done as much as two hours in the sun with the same results. I just did 45 minutes. It looked great before I put it in the water. It is clearly not done rinsing, there's still blotchy purple all over, but the image is starting to fade. Cyanotype can't be so slow that it takes hours in bright sunlight, can it? I've seen good exposures happen in just 12-15 minutes with fluorescent lights.

Edit: I just started a 2 hour exposure. I'll see what happens and comment later.

 

[nsurit]

How are you developing the exposed print?

 

[WetMogwai]

In a tray in the kitchen sink under running tap water. Today, the water is running directly on the print, but I've done it with the water not hitting the treated area directly before. The results don't seem different.

 

[sly]

I suspect that alkalinity is at the root of your problems. The paper? The water?

I have alkaline well water. When I do cyanotype, I don't wash in running water, but soak in a series of trays of water with vinegar added. Running water, for me = disappearing cyanotype.

 

[WetMogwai]

You may be on to something. I just used a very old aquarium Ph test. The color matched the highest point on the scale it came with, which was 7.8. I suspect the test is designed for a narrow range that fresh water fish like, so it may be more basic than that. What do you think? Should I pull my current exposure earlier than the two hours planned and try acidified water? It did look decent at 45 minutes before I started washing it.

 

[Toffle]

Which cyanotype formula are you using? I find that exposures with the traditional formula are at least double of the Mike Ware "new" cyanotype, and if you are using potassium dichromate to boost contrast, your exposures will be longer yet.

 

[WetMogwai]

It is the traditional formula. I learned to do it in a class in the same city. The only differences between where I learned and home are that I'm using the sun (I have a dim desk lamp that can do Pd in 1:45. I don't have time for that today and it is nice out, but I've tried hours under that too.) and there was a filtration system there that I don't have at home. I just asked the guy who taught me if that system did anything to the Ph but I haven't had a reply yet.

 

[sly]

2 hours does sound like a ridiculously long time. Even some bulletproof, overexposed, overdeveloped negs of mine don't take that long.

 

[cliveh]

What is the Cyanotype formula you are using and how old is the solution since you mixed it up?

 

[WetMogwai]

Traditional. I mixed it today.

I pulled the exposure at a little under an hour. It is in a tray of water with distilled vinegar. It seems to be clearing without bleaching as much. It isn't finished, but it is looking better than before.

 

[WetMogwai]

Vinegar was the answer. I did a half hour exposure and rinsed in acidified water. It is overexposed but I'm clearly on the right track. I'm done for the day but I have a good place to start from next time. Thanks for the help.

 

[Loris Medici]

As you've found out; alkaline wash water is a killer for cyanotypes. Watch out the vinegar amnt in your development / wash water; too much and you'll loose contrast generally and most importantly in the midtones... Try to develop in neutral water, and clearing in acidic water. Your rinse / final wash should be neutral.

Regards,
Loris.

 

[WetMogwai]

I went with Cyanotype today because I was doing my first 8x10 printing and I didn't have enough trays for Palladium. I thought I was going with the easier method. It turns out I'm less well equipped for Cyanotype than Pd at this size.

I realized in the middle of my printing that I could develop the Pd in a tray and clear in a drum. Next time I have time for alt processes, that's what I'll do.

 

[nsurit]

I generally use a weak vinegar solution (10 parts water to 1 part vinegar), water rinse, couple of minutes in a water bath with a little hydrogene peroxide and then a final wash in plain water. I've used some expensive papers in the past and am having good results with Cason Edition which is inexpensive. Bill Barber