Cyanotype over platinum/palladium registration issue

Have just started to try to do a cyanotype over platinum/palladium and am having a few registration problems. I am using arches platine and i have printed the platinum first on two sheets, one with a sizing bath and one without. When they are both dry i can't seem to get either one to perfectly register with the cyanotype negative. The supposed 'sized' platinum print is slightly blotchy too.
Do i need to try another paper or do i need to size the paper for longer than the 4 minutes i did last night?

many thanks for any help.

Dave:

Someone else will have to speak to the blotchy issue, but I can share my experience with registration. Work with the inherent advantages of the digital workflow. Wait until after the Pt/Pd print is dry. Flatten it in a dry mount press and try to register the first negative. You'll (probably) see a difference at the borders. Guess the amount - and it'll almost certainly be different width and height- and change the image size of the cyanotype negative to fit. Make sure you unselect "Constrain Proportions" and enter the changes separately. This method has been working very well for me for prints with as many as seven registrations beginning to end. Good luck and much fun.
d

dwross said:

Dave:

Guess the amount - and it'll almost certainly be different width and height- and change the image size of the cyanotype negative to fit.

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Denise, I meant to comment on this after looking at your website description of the process that went into your latest gallery upload; this is the most innovative registration method I've ever seen. It's fun to watch how different people approach and solve problems.
Katharine

Thanks Denise for the encouragement, its really is early days and i will keep trying. I will give your method a go and see if i can work with it. I did go onto to the alternative photography site and looked at one of the lessons on gum printing over cyanotype and the person reccomended that you 'size' the paper for an hour in warm water (125F). I have done that this evening to two sheets of platine and will give it a go tommorow.

dwross said:

Dave:

Someone else will have to speak to the blotchy issue, but I can share my experience with registration. Work with the inherent advantages of the digital workflow. Wait until after the Pt/Pd print is dry. Flatten it in a dry mount press and try to register the first negative. You'll (probably) see a difference at the borders. Guess the amount - and it'll almost certainly be different width and height- and change the image size of the cyanotype negative to fit. Make sure you unselect "Constrain Proportions" and enter the changes separately. This method has been working very well for me for prints with as many as seven registrations beginning to end. Good luck and much fun.
d

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How interesting - I'm planning on making one next week. My rather simple approach is just to soak and dry some paper before making the first print in the hope of getting something resembling a consistent starting point. I'm using COT320 because that's pretty much what I have. But the idea of printing the second negative to match is clever - I'll have to keep that in mind.

You might try Fabriano Artistico Extra White instead of Platine. My experience with platine is that is shrinks significantly more in one direction than the other, while FAEW does not. I've used FAEW very successfully with multiple gum over platinums for years. Before you make your platinum print print, pre-treat the paper with a solution of 3% or 4% oxalic acid for 5 or 10 minutes. Hang paper to dry without any rinsing after the OA bath.

Kerik said:

You might try Fabriano Artistico Extra White instead of Platine. My experience with platine is that is shrinks significantly more in one direction than the other, while FAEW does not. I've used FAEW very successfully with multiple gum over platinums for years. Before you make your platinum print print, pre-treat the paper with a solution of 3% or 4% oxalic acid for 5 or 10 minutes. Hang paper to dry without any rinsing after the OA bath.

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Thanks for the advice. I have quite a bit of Fabriano Artistico, but i dont think its bright white,its the one they do that is off white.
Ill make up a solution of the oxalic acid, i have a 2% solution made up but will add some more to make it up to 4%.

I just printed the cyanotype over the platinum on the platine (see pic attached) it looks rather mottled but i will see tommorow once its been dried. It is quite a vivid cyan, i think the cream Artistico will just temper that down a bit and might look more pleasing.

Kerik said:

You might try Fabriano Artistico Extra White instead of Platine. My experience with platine is that is shrinks significantly more in one direction than the other, while FAEW does not. I've used FAEW very successfully with multiple gum over platinums for years. Before you make your platinum print print, pre-treat the paper with a solution of 3% or 4% oxalic acid for 5 or 10 minutes. Hang paper to dry without any rinsing after the OA bath.

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Hi Kerik, I agree that Artistico is one of the more stable papers for registering multiple processes. I believe either choosing 2-4% oxalic for how many minutes is a printer’s choice as long as you keep it standard and not random. I did a test on Artistico of 4 minutes in warm water, 4 minutes in cold water – 2 minutes in warm water and 2 minutes in cold. Keeping all things the same for making the prints on the test I discovered that the longer and warmer the oxalic was soaking the lower contrast were the images. Due, I believe the more of the sizing that was being removed and the platinum soaking into the paper farther. The 2 minutes in cold/warm had more contrast than the 4 in cold/warm. The differences were subtle but definitely there. No big deal really - just adjust your Na2 or whatever you use. If you shoot for a beefy neg a longer soak would compliment it and try to standardize your capturing/duping technique.

It’s amazing how everything you do has an effect on the outcome as you know, ya can’t take nuttin’ for granted - unfortunately.

Stan