Cyanotype from 35mm (or MF) negatives?

franck · Jun 11, 2015

Hello!

I am quite new here and also new to cyanotype so please excuse the potentially trivial or stupid question(s)

I have been experimenting with cyanotype and I really like the simplicity of the process and the results which can be achieved. I have made some contact prints of some of my negatives (mostly 35mm) but that makes for really tiny prints. To get larger prints, it seems that the easiest option is to make digital negatives so I gave it a try and that seems to work pretty OK. However, if possible I would really like to have a way to keep the process fully analog. It there a reasonably simple and reasonably priced way to enlarge negatives?

I have a simple darkroom setup for developing film and making prints on paper.

Here are a couple of images, the first is a contact print and the second is from a digital negative made from scanning a 35mm frame:

Cheers,

Franck

bvy · Jun 11, 2015

Digital negatives are probably the "easiest" way. I'll have nothing to do with them though. To answer your question, you could enlarge the negative to an 8x10 (for example) piece of sheet film, and then either reverse process it or contact print it to another piece of sheet film. This will give you an enlarged negative. Litho film might be a good choice for this -- it's cheap and since you're enlarging black and white, it doesn't matter that it's orthochromatic. Another option is to enlarge to direct positive paper, and try contact printing from a paper negative (negative to positive will yield a negative). You might lose some sharpness going that route; you'd have to experiment...

Mainecoonmaniac · Jun 11, 2015

I do digital ink jet negs, but one thing I've experimented with is contacting printing a piece of 8x10 X-ray film using an 8x10 bw print. Works ok.

gzinsel · Jun 12, 2015

Check out ed Buffalo's site > www.unblinkingeye.com! look for the article "less is more" All instructions are there

Jim Noel · Jun 12, 2015

Making enlarged negatives on lith film in the darkroom is not a difficult task, but it does take some knowledge and practice.
Your fastest route is via digital negatives which are not that difficult. I don't like to do them, but have taught the process to those who don't have access to an adequate darkroom. These negatives print very well and can be made directly from the original if you have a decent scanner, and Photoshop or similar program.
I second the suggestion to study the article on "unblinkingeye.com"

pdeeh · Jun 12, 2015

I think if you have limited darkroom skills, it is probably much easier to make enlargements onto lith film than making the reversals a la Ed Buffaloe.

One doesn;t have to worry about bleaches or flashing, and only the normal trays of chemicals are needed.

I say this as someone who has investigated and tried both. I got usable large negatives for alt printing almost immediately (in fact from my first - guessed - exposure) enlarging 35mm to 10x8, whereas it was clear that making reversals would be a much longer haul to nail the process.

Obviously its more expensive in film as you have to contact the positives again to make negs.

I used Arista Ortho-Litho.

Can't speak for X-Ray film, it's as expensive in LF as regular Ilford LF over here.

I haven't tried mainecoonemaniac's suggestion, but I really must one day. I think it might be an excellent alternative (no pun)

MrBrowning · Jun 12, 2015

I've been using Multi Ortho film from B&H (8x10 until last night when I stepped up to 11x14) and have been happy with the results. I'm starting with 4x5 and 6x6 negs and enlarging on to the sheet film. Development is in PMK 2:4:100 by inspection. Since I only have limited time each night I'm in the darkroom it's taking me 2 nights to get a negative to use, 1 night to make the positive and 1 night to contact into a negative. I also experimented using Moersch lith developer (for the positive) with the film like you would with paper and Selectol soft for the negative and had some nice results.

removed account4 · Jun 12, 2015

h franck

an extremely easy way to make enlarged negatives is by making a darkroom print, and contact printing it
to anther piece of photo paper. you will have a black and white NEGATIVE print ... without any hassle.
if you don't have any single weight paper, or rc paper ( without the maker's stamp ) regular photo paper will work.
you can either print it as is in the sunlight, it might take a bit of time because the paper might be
thick ... or you can take some paraffin and wax both sides of the print using a hot plate and a paper towel to make the print
semi translucent, and that should trim down the amount of time it takes to make the print. making enlarged negatives.

have fun !
john

michr · Jun 12, 2015

enlarging from 35mm for cyanotype

The process I've had success with is to enlarge the negative onto a sheet of xray film, develop, etc., and then contact print onto another sheet of xray film, and use that for the enlarged negative.

It all depends on what equipment you have available, and what your costs are. You might find lots of luck enlarging onto a 4x5 sheet of ortho film (or duplicating film) to make the positive and further enlarging the 4x5 onto a larger sheet of film or paper. I'm not sure the choice of intermediate matters much; you could probably contact print 35mm to another 35mm strip of film and use that as the inter-positive. Using ortho film, or photo paper, will allow you to work with the material under a red safelight, as I'm sure you know.

For myself, I have lots of xray film, which makes this a cheap process. I've printed digital negatives (from a digital source image) onto very large sheets of plastic before and had quite a bit of success as well. The inkjet prints don't have as much density, and the loss of resolution from going digital doesn't seem to matter much with cyanotype. For me the appeal of going analog only was keeping everything in-house and on-demand, versus having to go out to have prints made, and ultimately paying more. Plus the 11x14 positives look pretty good themselves.

franck · Jun 13, 2015

Thank you !!!

Hi guys,

Thank you so much for all these replies, experiences and info! That is a lot!
I am glad I asked because there are alternative you mention here that I had no idea existed.

The easiest which I can probably try out just with the supplies I already have is to use paper, I have to check if the paper I am using has any watermarking or stamps in the paper.

Then if I manage to get my hands on some Ortho-Litho film, that sounds like a great thing to play with. The reasonable price and being able to work under the safe light makes it really attractive!

I will post some results if I manage to get something to work!

Cheers,

Franck

franck · Jun 13, 2015

Under the microscope!

Hello,

Today I experimented a bit more with cyanotype and tried to find out a bit more about how the image looks at every step of the process: on the original 35mm negative, once scanned, on the digital negative and on the cyanotype print. To do so, I put the images under the microscope, this is serious grain/pixel/fiber-peeping but fun and interesting (at least to me

Here is the link to the post with all the details: http://photo.fleurey.com/blog/cyanotype-under-the-microscope

Let me know if you have any comments, questions or ideas for further experiments.

Cheers,

Franck

davido · Jun 15, 2015

A few people have said that the "dreaded d neg" is the easiest way to go. I kinda have to disagree. In school we made enlarged negs with lith film in dektol. First the inter-neg and then the neg (the inter-neg should be fairly thin). It took a lot of experimenting and the results are higher contrast and grainy. But they have a certain look. Then I started shooting b&w transparency and that was so much easier, but again hard to control the contrast as lith film is inherently contrasty. I then found x-ray dupe film and it was a godsend. Totally the opposite to lith film, x-ray dupe requires tons of light and concentrated dektol (I was using straight or 1:1). You can make a dupe straight from the original negative! It's a little weird to get used to - the longer the exposure the lighter the negative. Dodging and burning are the opposite than regular printing. I've now gone on to shooting large format which is the ultimate way to go for range of tonality and contrast control.
Remember too that a negative which is good for cyanotype needs to be more contrasty that a normal neg for silver. It should print with silver paper with a grade 0 filter.

I like your microscope test. I would interested to see a microscope version of a silver print to compare with the cyanotype.

David

davido · Jun 15, 2015

This is the x-ray dupe film I was referring to in the previous posting:
http://store.xrayvisions.net/Fuji-MI-DUP-p/fujimi-dup.htm
Fuji Mi-dup film.

franck · Jun 17, 2015

davido said:
This is the x-ray dupe film I was referring to in the previous posting:
http://store.xrayvisions.net/Fuji-MI-DUP-p/fujimi-dup.htm
Fuji Mi-dup film.

Hi David,

Thanks for all the experiences and info. This film also seem to be within a reasonable price range, that is great.
I need to find out if I can get some in Norway (or shipped to Norway for a reasonable cost).

Cheers!

Franck

franck · Jun 17, 2015

davido said:
I like your microscope test. I would interested to see a microscope version of a silver print to compare with the cyanotype.

David

That is a very good idea. The negative I used for the cyanotype experiment was shot just a couple of weeks ago and I have not yet printed it in the darkroom.
I will definitely put a silver print under the microscope as soon as I make one!

Cheers,

Franck

pdeeh · Jun 17, 2015

franck said:
Hi David,

Thanks for all the experiences and info. This film also seem to be within a reasonable price range, that is great.
I need to find out if I can get some in Norway (or shipped to Norway for a reasonable cost).

Cheers!

Franck

I've found it impossible to obtain xRay film in large format sizes from the eu at the same sort of prices that our US buds pay

So if you come up with anything, be sure to post back here!

davido · Jun 17, 2015

franck said:
Hi David,

Thanks for all the experiences and info. This film also seem to be within a reasonable price range, that is great.
I need to find out if I can get some in Norway (or shipped to Norway for a reasonable cost).

Cheers!

Franck

I actually found some Mi-Dup x-ray dupe film on ebay at very good price (this was a while ago). So just keep looking.

David

Cyanotype from 35mm (or MF) negatives?

franck

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