Cyanotype and gesso.

JBrunner · Feb 12, 2008

Ok,

I'm no painter, and here is where it shows... I was recently given an 11x14 artists canvas, stretched over a frame. The canvas is coated with something called gesso, wich I gather to be an acrylic of some kind.

I had the bright idea that this might make a great medium for a bleached and toned cyanotype, and I'm just curious if anyone else has tried this, before I go and wreck this thing......

Akki14 · Feb 12, 2008

Gesso, since it's acrylic basecoat, is waterbased but I believe it dries fairly water resistant. I'm not sure how well it'll take to cyanotype specifically but I've heard of people using a diluted down (to milk-like appearance) amount of gesso to size papers for gum printing.
I think gesso even has ground up chalk in it so that might affect the cyanotype negatively.

Bill Mobbs · Feb 12, 2008

Gesso is kind of primer for canvas made from Gypsum and some kind of glue. The modern canvas gesso is an Gypsum and acrylic mixture I think. Basic "sheet Rock" Hope this helps.

bill

Whiteymorange · Feb 12, 2008

Traditional gesso is a mix of marble dust, titanium dioxide and/or Calcium carbonate and linseed oil. The "modern" stuff is acrylic primer, not all that different from wall paint. It is waterproof from the front. Soaking cloth with primer on it makes for problems in the bond, but not enough to worry about, me thinks. Go for it, Jason!

rdbkorn · Feb 12, 2008

I think you would have more success by printing a cyanotype on a thin Japanese paper, and then collaging that onto the canvas. This will give you the dimensionality and texture of the canvas, but allow you to make the cyanotype image. I'm pretty sure the gesso'd surface of the canvas will resist a smooth coating of the cyanotype chemistry. And then there's the problem of whether it will all just wash off after you'd done the exposure.

buze · Feb 13, 2008

There is an article out there that explain how to use diluted gesso as a 'base' for Gum printing; in fact I was going to try that for my next batch and see how it prevents deep-paper stains...

Whiteymorange · Feb 13, 2008

buze said:
There is an article out there that explain how to use diluted gesso as a 'base' for Gum printing; in fact I was going to try that for my next batch and see how it prevents deep-paper stains...

One of the problems with diluting gesso is that there must be a certain percentage of binder left in it to prevent breakdown. It has a greater degree of solids than most paint, rendering it somewhat absorbent - so the top layers of paint can adhere to it easily. Watering it down is not recommended - at least for painters. I'm sure the short term effects (a year? maybe five?) wouldn't be too bad. Painters tend to think in terms of decades - at least this one does.

winger · Apr 14, 2008

So, did you try doing a cyanotype on the canvas? Just curious as I was thinking of trying it, too, now that it's sunny.

blokeman · Apr 14, 2008

I've used Cyanotype successfully on plain fine weave and ungesso'ed canvas. Coarse weave and gesso'ed canvas does not usually have a good even surface for a good contact. I tried it with gesso one day, wasted my time. Thats not to say that you will not be more successful though Jason! Once, one of my students did some beautiful images (using acetate sheet as a neg.) on what we call linen, she included some stitching as part of the image ... very nice. The linen was white/cream. I believe these materials will be more successful after they're washed as new material holds some kind of stuff prohibiting washes to soak in.

Tomf2468 · Apr 14, 2008

I've printed both cyanotype and Kalli on cloth and canvas. Great fun. But, you do want UNCOATED cloth or canvas. Gesso is a water resistant thick barrier between your chemicals and the cloth, not good. Even highly diluted gesso is "unpleasant" for alt work (my opinion). Gesso is best left to the painters. You can buy artist canvas without Gesso (any big art supply store will have it). You are unlikely to find it pre-stretched on a frame at a discount price place. Most artists canvas is quite rough, I found that I like a finer weave cotton cloth far better.

You can see my Kalli work on cloth here:
http://www.ferguson-photo-design.com/art/toys.html

Hope that helps,
Tom

donbga · Apr 14, 2008

JBrunner said:
Ok,

I'm no painter, and here is where it shows... I was recently given an 11x14 artists canvas, stretched over a frame. The canvas is coated with something called gesso, wich I gather to be an acrylic of some kind.

I had the bright idea that this might make a great medium for a bleached and toned cyanotype, and I'm just curious if anyone else has tried this, before I go and wreck this thing......

Most likely the cyanotype will wash off the gesso regardless of the dilution. But since you got the canvas for free try it and find out.

dpurdy · Apr 14, 2008

Recently I was talking with a sales person at the Photographers Formulary and was told that people are using gesso to size paper for platinum printing. I haven't tried it yet.
Dennis

Tomf2468 · Apr 15, 2008

Odd..... I know PF uses Gesso in their "beginner gum kit", that is what I started gum printing with many years ago. My cynical guess is that gesso in a "beginners" kit makes the liability lawyers much happier than "glut"! However, so few papers need added size for platinum. Also, gesso more than any other size I've used covers/hides the paper surface. So, if you had an interesting textured paper that was too waterleaf for platinum.... using gesso would hide the interesting surface far more than gelatin, starch, gum or dimmer. My opinion, for what it is worth!

nworth · Apr 20, 2008

There a a lot of things called gesso. As noted above, they are a sort of primer and stiffener for artists' canvas. Depending on who is doing what, gesso may be anything from gypsum in linseed oil through thinned flake white (lead carbonate) oil paint to baryta coatings and (commonly used these days) titanium white (titanium dioxide) in a diluted acrylic base (or some combination of these or a special proprietary gunk). The idea is to get a stiff, flat white base to accept your paint. Most are quite neutral and stable, but they are not designed for photographic uses. Some tests may be in order, but the effects of the gesso on photographic permanence are uncertain. A thin coating of fixative and maybe an overcoating of gelatin might work to isolate the photo coating from the undercoating, but I'm not speaking from any experience or special knowledge here.

nworth · Apr 20, 2008

Since the cyanotype image is prussian blue pigment, I would guess that it would be pretty stable with most gessos, so long as the gesso doesn't react with the ferric ammonium citrate, potassium ferricyanide, or citric acid.

Phillip P. Dimor · Apr 24, 2008

I used to collect scraps of inkjet-printable canvas, it may have even been Ilford canvas. The stuff is neat, but cyanotype did not take to it as well as I would have liked. The image was weak and I needed to coat several times to obtain a strong image. Let us know how it goes!

JBrunner · Apr 26, 2008

Well I hate to admit that I get sidetracked all the time, but making a living really screws with photography. I haven't tried it yet, but I have been thinking of getting an uncoated (unbleached?) canvas to compare with the "gesso" version.

I'm shooting a bridal portrait on Teus evening with the 8x10. I'll start to print those negs sometime Wednesday, so I'll try both at that time
.

JBrunner · Jul 13, 2008

Wull, I coated and exposed the coated canvas. The image stuck just fine, but the exposure varied with the texture, making sort of a halftone dot effect. Not pleasing in any traditional sense.

phritz phantom · Jul 18, 2008

i've heard quite a few times that people use gesso instead of gelatine with gum prints. i asked the guy from my local arts store about "transparent gesso" and he told me that there is no such thing (i don't believe it, but whatever...) and he gave me a sample of acrylic medium to try: lascaux arcylic medium 1 - glossy. from reading the description, i could possibly work; it's transparent and works as a barrier between paper and color.
i haven't printed with it yet, but i coated some paper and i can see that the emulsion doesn't dry even, there are spots with more and less color. all the other papers i coated that day (gelatin sizing and none) are fine.
so, i guess that coould be a problem. i used it 1+5 diluted with water.

Larry Knight · Nov 6, 2019

I have been gum printing and using cyanotype as a first pass. For it to work I need 3 coats of gesso on the panel (minimum) and to apply a gelatin size once the boards are dried out for several days. They do need to be gently sanded if you want to achieve a smooth printing surface. If you want the gesso to maintain its texture, several top coats of transparent gesso should be put on before the gelatin. The gelatin layer needs to be fairly thin. Applying the cyanotype to gelatin requires far more brushing to insure even absorption into the surface, but it is really nice and even compared to paper. Details come out amazingly. During washout, the surface is quite delicate. I use grocery grade gelatin hardened with alum.

Cyanotype and gesso.

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Cyanotype and gesso.

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