Cyanotype and aging

Willie Jan · Jan 21, 2009

I was wondering,

when I create the cyanotype liquid (new cyanotype process with Ammonium iron(III) oxalate and Potassium ferricyanide )

Does it need to settle for a couple of days ?
With other words, is there a change noticable when the liquid becomes older?

Phillip P. Dimor · Jan 21, 2009

I've cyanotype chemistry (A + B, not the newer formulation) that is nearly 6 years old.. It's a little crusty, definitely darker. It still works fine, when mixed it forms that yellow/bright green..

It seems to go forever..

donbga · Jan 21, 2009

Willie Jan said:
I was wondering,

when I create the cyanotype liquid (new cyanotype process with Ammonium iron(III) oxalate and Potassium ferricyanide )

Does it need to settle for a couple of days ?
With other words, is there a change noticable when the liquid becomes older?

My experience is that as long as you keep Parts A&B seperated, stored in the dark in a tightly sealed GLASS container the solutions seem to last a very long time. I mix a liter at a time.

Willie Jan · Jan 22, 2009

donbga said:
I mix a liter at a time.

That was also question behind. I now create 200ml,
but making the stuff in higher volume takes the same time...

I more and more like the cyanotype (strange, isn't it?)

I use Simili japon,bergger cot 320, buxton paper.

I had bad experience with Arches paper (not platine),
strange dots where visible that did not take probably as much liquid as other parts of the paper. Looks like a paper with snow dots.

tim_bessell · Jan 27, 2009

Willie Jan said:
That was also question behind. I now create 200ml,
but making the stuff in higher volume takes the same time...

I more and more like the cyanotype (strange, isn't it?)

I use Simili japon,bergger cot 320, buxton paper.

I had bad experience with Arches paper (not platine),
strange dots where visible that did not take probably as much liquid as other parts of the paper. Looks like a paper with snow dots.

I had a similar problem with Arches HP Watercolor paper, though not as extreme. I looked at a finished print under a microscope and saw just what you described. Actually, small holes formed by overlapping fibers that did not fill with the sensitizer solution. Double coating didn't seem to help much.

Pre-shrinking the paper fixed the problem, in fact I think my Dmax doubled!! No need to double coat anymore.

UKJohn · Jan 27, 2009

Talking about Arches, I had various problems with their Aquarelle paper (300gsm) whilst experimenting with papers for Salt Printing (slightly different than Cyanotypes I agree), the paper kept going blotchy during the washing stage. After numerous attempts on various different sheets I eventually moved onto Fabriano 5 - I use HOT press and so far very pleased.

John

Willie Jan · Jan 28, 2009

tim_bessell said:
Pre-shrinking the paper fixed the problem, in fact I think my Dmax doubled!! No need to double coat anymore.

What do you mean by pre-shrinking?
Heating the paper under a press before coating?

What I read is that using wetting agent could help you to get the solution attach better to the paper.

Phillip P. Dimor · Jan 28, 2009

Perhaps he means soaking the paper with water initially and letting it dry; they do this with watercolor paper, no?

I sort of do this, I don't soak but brush the paper with water and then coat again when damp (WITH VDB), with cyanotypes the brush and paper I use I don't really need it.

tim_bessell · Jan 28, 2009

Willie Jan said:
What do you mean by pre-shrinking?
Heating the paper under a press before coating?

What I read is that using wetting agent could help you to get the solution attach better to the paper.

Willie,
Sorry, i have been away from the computer.

By pre shrinking the paper I mean soaking in water for 10-15 minutes, then allow to dry completely before coating. This closes up the pores of the paper and gives a more even coat. Just before I coat and I use a glass rod, I humidify the paper above a tray of water for maybe 20 min. This also help the paper absorb the sensitizer. Don't let the paper touch the water in the tray, just suspend it above the water about a 1/2 inch. and cover the tray with maybe a piece of glass the keep the humidity up.

T

tim_bessell · Jan 28, 2009

Phillip P. Dimor said:
Perhaps he means soaking the paper with water initially and letting it dry; they do this with watercolor paper, no?

I sort of do this, I don't soak but brush the paper with water and then coat again when damp (WITH VDB), with cyanotypes the brush and paper I use I don't really need it.

Do you double coat your VDB paper? I'm getting ready to try my method (so far only have used it with cyanotype) with vdb since I didn't like the look of double coated paper. I would rather get it all on in one shot.

thanX

Willie Jan · Jan 29, 2009

Before i used a glass rod, but the coating was not even. I now use a brush and coat it once. I do not have any problems with coating.

I use the new cyanotype variant. I will do a test with a pre soak of water to see what the difference is.
I want to test several pieces of paper to get the best papers for the process. I search for paper that can take high contrast negs, and paper that is best for low contrast negs.

I am testing paper to create a galapagos collection in blue...

tim_bessell · Jan 29, 2009

It is my understanding that the New Cyanotype process is very particular about the paper it is used on. You should have a look around Mike Ware's website http://www.mikeware.co.uk/mikeware/main.html . You will find much useful information about this and other alt processes.

Best wishes!

nze · Jan 29, 2009

Newcyanotype can be use as soon as made. Just need to be well filtred.
Probelm with paper May be solve with Tween 20 or any wetting agent , add a dilute drop 1% to the solution to coat. il won't stay on the paper and wash in the wet stage.

nze · Jan 29, 2009

looking at the galapagos print. you could get really denser blue with new cyanotype. I use to dilute mine 1+1 ( with water) to get less dense blue for my tri color gum

Willie Jan · Jan 30, 2009

nze said:
looking at the galapagos print. you could get really denser blue with new cyanotype. I use to dilute mine 1+1 ( with water) to get less dense blue for my tri color gum

I use simili japon for this to create an old photo effect.
If I use cot 320 the contrast is much higher.

Willie Jan · Jan 30, 2009

tim_bessell said:
It is my understanding that the New Cyanotype process is very particular about the paper it is used on. You should have a look around Mike Ware's website http://www.mikeware.co.uk/mikeware/main.html . You will find much useful information about this and other alt processes.

Best wishes!

I got his book from the library, indeed a lot of information.

tim_bessell · Jan 30, 2009

Willie Jan said:
I use simili japon for this to create an old photo effect.
If I use cot 320 the contrast is much higher.

I think you will find that some subjects are better suited for this process. This image looks high contrast to begin with and lacks a range of tone that cyanotype can reproduce. IMHO anyhow.

Yes, some papers are high contrast and do not work well. Above all, a negative with the right density range is key to getting a good print.

Cyanotype and aging

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