customer service reps who don't know about photography

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jeffneedham

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Where I grew up (in the south) and where I live now (in a small town) people take pride in their work. They know that if they cross the customer, they're causing a riff with a neighbor.

If someone wants to pay more for a product, that's their deal. I'll look for a better deal from someone who cares. End of story.
 

gr82bart

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David H. Bebbington said:
And what a hell of a way to earn a living. I wonder what effect being constantly rude (and no doubt being told at frequent intervals by customers to go and **** yourself) has on the staff - do they all end up as alcoholics or suicides, or do they just leave all the time?
Unfortunately, I think they thrive on it!

This thread reminds me of one very well known glamour photographer in Florida. He takes awesome pictures, gets girls in magazines, get them good port pics, etc...

Trouble is that he's been indicted on secretly videotaping the underaged ones while they were changing. There are widespread, but heresay, reports of him doing other unprofessional acts. Has that stopped the flow of girls or parents sending their girls his way. Nope, not one iota. Even having him banned from all the 'modelling' websites hasn't stopped the flow or tarnished his rep.

Goes to show that humans will follow fame/fortune more than principles. What's the saying? "Everyone has a price."

Art.
 

David A. Goldfarb

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Stopped into B&H today to pick up a $16 item. Noon on a Friday before a long weekend and holiday closings June 1-3, with closing time at 2 p.m.--a really busy time--and their server went down. It was handled pretty well, I thought, but it was curious to see the place grind to a halt for about a half hour. As soon as the system was back up, orders were dispatched quickly, but they seemed to have no way of manually taking orders, calling items up from stock, and taking payments in the meanwhile.

And people wonder why I shoot film.
 

Roger Hicks

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Dear Jeff,

Isn't that the point? Why should anyone care about you, if all you care about is price?

In a small town, you lose customers if you are rude (but you can charge what the market can bear).

In a big city, you lose customers if you are rude (but you can charge what the market can bear, as long as the market doesn't mind a degree of abruptness -- and it's a bigger, braver market).

I bought 2 of my last 3 computers from a small dealer in the nearest town (Loudun) because I get excellent service when I buy and afterwards. It costs more but that's fine by me. I don't want a 'Your Problem!' response from the vendor when I do have a problem. (The third was in London because I happened to be there, knew the company in question, and could live with their [honourable] guarantee).

Buy from the cheapest and you have no-one but yourself to blame if they don't want to know you, at the time or later.

Cheers,

Roger
 

david b

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I ordered some film from Adorama last year. I think it was in April. When the film arrived, it was all dated for March.
When I called to ask them about this, I was told I could ship the film back at my expense or I could order "fresh" film that was now in stock.
After being treated like an asshole, I refused to order from them ever again.

I direct all of my orders now to Freestyle, who have been nothing short of fantastic.
 

jeffneedham

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Roger,

I didn't drink enough water today to continue this pissing contest, so I'll wish you a good life and tell you to enjoy spending the copious amounts of money you seem have.

Everyone else,

I'll re-emphasize my support of Freestyle. Good price and good service can happen. Don't take any crap from the stores who don't give a crap about you.

Regards,

Jeff
 

blansky

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jovo said:
Wow...I thought the game was for the sales people to remember MY name, chat ME up a bit, and make ME feel like I mattered. I guess that's just so 20th century....well, f**k me for living in the past.

Man, what a dinosaur. Obviously spawned during the 1950s.

Well bucko, if it wasn't for you and all your damn needs, that salesperson could be at home or out having fun.

But nooooooooo, there you are, shuffling into his department, always wanting stuff, asking stupid questions, bothering him just before his break, or an hour before closing time, interrupting phone calls or debates about last night’s baseball game, and you stand there and wonder why they're sick of the sight of you.

Obviously you fell off that turnip truck that just arrived from 1953. Those bygone days of yesteryear, when people owned their own stores and hired a couple of employees, paid them, trained them and told them, that you, the customer was where their paycheck was coming from. Well sport, those days are over.

Hey, if its service you want, call a hooker.

Don't be bothering some underworked underpaid mutt that just arrived in retail because he doesn't have the smarts to get a real job. Show some compassion. He’s 28, living at home and still trying to find himself, so how the hell is he supposed to help you find the shit you’re looking for.

Have some consideration, instead of wasting everyone’s time, prancing around the store like some damn customer disturbing the miserable old fucker behind the counter, who has been selling the same shit for 53 years and would rather piss in your shoe than to help you.

This is the 21st Century. Things are done a weeeeee bit different now. Come on in to Wally mart where you're greeting by some vacant eyed senior citizen with advanced Alzheimers sporting a big grin on his face while directing you to the wrong department, overflowing with junk made in Chinese prisons, and run by department heads that can't speak English, with cokebottle eyeglasses and last weeks drool plastered to their rancid vest along with the cat piss from the 6 cats that live with them in their double wide trailer. This is retail baby. You want low prices. We got em.

Get with the program and quit you’re whining.


Michael
 
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mmcclellan

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Yes, I vote for Calumet, too. I've bought tons of stuff from them and never had a problem. Their website descriptions are spot on and their trays (the generic ones) are all great quality. You can't beat them!
 

Roger Hicks

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Dear Jeff,

I do not have a lot of money, and I'll heartily second your endorsement of Freestyle: I used to shop there a lot when I lived in California in the late 80s and early 90s.

I don't think it's a pissing contest, just a difference of opinion about an interpretation of Luke 10:7.

Cheers,

Roger
 
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jeffneedham

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Roger Hicks said:
Dear Jeff,

I do not have a lot of money, and I'll heartily second your endorsement of Freestyle: I used to shop there a lot when I lived in California in the late 80s and early 90s.

I don't think it's a pissing contest, just a difference of opinion about an interpretation of Luke 10:7.

Cheers,

Roger

i'm glad we agree on something. and i was hoping to make another "enemy". i guess i'll have to go to another thread for that.
 

removed account4

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last time i almost bought something at adorama it was an aristo cold light head for my omega ... i asked them a question about the head in general ( if there was a hole for a metrolux compensating timer + the diameter of the light source ) --- the guy was a jerk, i apologized for taking so much of his time and said that i would buy it elsewhere. after i hung up, called b&h, and asked if they could match adorama's price, the guy answered all my (2) questions, and i bought it from them.
 

seadrive

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Hahahaha, if you guys think Adorama is bad, you never spent any time at 47th Street Photo, back in the '70s.

On Sunday morning, customers were five rows deep in front of the counter. The only thing you were there for was to pick up a box and pay for it on your way out. If you even looked like you wanted to ask a question, the sales clerk would completely ignore you. I've never seen anything like it (thankfully).

If you went there during the week, when it wasn't so busy, you might get someone to answer a question or two, but it was like pulling teeth, and about as pleasant an experience as a root canal.

Ah, the good old days, getting abused at 47th Street Photo, hahahahaha... :smile:
 

leeturner

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Whilst our market is smaller I've received nothing but great service from UK shops such as Nova and Mr. Cad.
However in New York nearly every question in a shop was greeted with disdain. I was with our guitarist in a music shop whilst he was shopping for a new guitar. A Les Paul custom had taken his fancy so he picked it up and went to the shop 'assistant' who was sitting behind the counter reading a magazine. "Do you mind if I plug this in to try it out?". "F*ck off" came the reply. Not sure if this was NY speak for "no problem" he asked again. Same reply. So we did.
Next store we were looking for a specific make of Sony studio headphone. "Do you know where we might get Sony model XYZ". "Try f**king Japan".
Like Postal Service and Military Intelligence, customer service is definetely an oxymoron.
 
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leeturner said:
Like Postal Service and Military Intelligence, customer service is definitely an oxymoron.
There is, however, a simple answer. In the area where I live, very close to each other, we have branches of 2 electrical retailers, Curry's and Comet. I have not visited Curry's for a while, I do not plan to for the rest of my life, since on my last visit visit it was very plain that no management system worthy of the name was in operation, and that the assistants were totally demotivated and were clearly playing a game of "Who can ignore the most customers for the longest time?" In the Comet store, on the other hand, customers are not pestered but it is never a problem to get an assistant's attention and get the advice you need. The difference seems to be that the Comet people are on commission, whereas I would always assume in cases such as the "**** off" guitar salesman that the rate of pay is low, commission is non-existent and the store owner is a long way away!
 

snegron

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I too have had a few problems with Adorama. The last one was rather interesting. I learned my lesson never to shop at Adorama again!

I ordered a used 35mm 2.0 manual focus Nikon lens from them through their website. I requested they ship it via US mail to my PO box. They took it upon themselves to send it via UPS, knowing that UPS does not deliver to PO boxes. The package was returned to Adorama at their own request the same day it arrived by UPS without even giving me the oportunity to go pick the package up at the UPS facility! I called Adorama, emailed them, was told that if I was not satisfied I could reject the order and that once they recieved the lens they would credit back the amount to my card. So I did. I paid about $40.00 more for it at KEH and had the lens in about three days from KEH. About a week later I recieved a package from Adorama at my PO box. It was the same lens I had rejected! I spoke with the same "customer service" person for about the fourth time and returned the lens.

When buying used equipment I have been happy so far with KEH. I returned two items in the past with KEH and had absolutely no problems with them. Their customer service department was very helpful.

B&H was great when I bought things from them (except their used camera department), but when I tried returning a deffective flash bracket they made it a long cumbersome process. My experiences in their used camera department were that one of the employees who always seemed to be there whenever I went there, was too preoccupied drinking coffee and engaged in chitchat with another employee to be any help to me. He was rather curt and seemed uninterested in selling me anything. I really wanted to purchase an F2 behind the counter, but his attitude dampened my enthusiasm. I walked out of the store empty handed. Several days later I ordered an F2A from KEH and I am happy I did! I only shop from NY stores when other places are sold out and I have absolutely no other choice. Even then, I now refuse to deal with Adorama.
 

gnashings

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I would like to speak to the position taken by Mr. Hicks.
To a large extent, I agree with his "message". Quality costs, service costs - and if you are unwilling to pay for it, you don't get. I think the point that you, sir, are missing is the level, or lets call it the breaking point between bad service and service that is less involved in your purchasing experience. I believe that there is a "floor" if you will to what is acceptible, at any price point. I think the origin of this thread was basically a post about this very issue: there is a bare minimum of courtesy and decorum that is expected when people get any amount of my hard earned money, large all small. I have worked in various customer service or related positions for companies that range from exclusive to very general in their clientelle, and one of the things I knew was expected of me was a certain level of courtesy and knowledge. If you do not want to deal with customers, get a job that does not involve dealing with customers. I know many of these jobs are low paying and often the only thing some people can land - and I think herein lies the problem: your life sucks, your job sucks, and guy you have to be nice to is better of than you. So these people react with bitterness, and that, I think is a lack of accountability. The minute you agree to take the job, you give up your right to be bitter while performing it unless you are picking up garbage in a chain gang for the local prison. And even then, you should really thin what got you there in the first place and who got you there in the first place. You take a job, you agree to certain conditions.
Then there are the employers who do not invest in their employees with training and necessary attention - or God forbid, job security.
Still, the end product is, that when I buy several rolls of 35mm film from the biggest photo chain in Canada and always pick the 36 exposure rolls, when I get around to asking for the 120 film I want, I am regretfully informed that it only comes in 24 exposures... That, to me, falls a touch short.

Peter.
 
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Camera salesman's point of view

Unfortunately, cheap is cheap..... We want Walmart prices at the Rolex store. Not just want--expect.

Well said. As well, sometimes when we try to squeeze a penny too hard, we end up screwing ourselves, even if we don't realize it in the end. Here's a story from the point-of-view of the other side of the camera store counter, more on the concept of "deals" than the main topic of rude service:

When I began working in camera stores as a teenager back in the early 1970's, I built a following of "customers" who adored visiting the store and picking my brain. I am basically a very friendly and open person, but as a novice salesperson I naïvely used alot of time in my demonstrations, showing-off how much knowledge I had and talking too much. When B&H came onto the scene (1973?), certain "customers" would come to the store to get help in selecting the right equipment —often receiving what was, in-effect, a mini photo-course along with the 15 to 20 minute demo and explanation— only to end-up buying later by mail, in order to save $15.00 or $20.00 (this amount was usually our profit margin!!!).

Adding salt to the wound, often the same customers would return to the store to proudly show their "friend", the young salesman, their newly-acquired camera, and to ask him, again, how to correctly use it!.

Of course, the store was happy to at least have a new photofinishing customer. But, this scenario began to occur so frequently (even with the the older, more experienced salespeople ...and probably in more than one store in the U.S.!) that the store soon created a reasonably priced week-end photography and camera-use course for any beginner, whether they be our customers or not. Recent purchasers of cameras at the store received a coupon for free attendance. Also, salespeople were admonished not to spend too much time in demonstrations, all while keeping the quality of service at a correct level.

Customers who needed "how-to" explanations on new equipment which was bought elsewhere would be courteously given a few pointers, but beyond that, would be adviced to take the course. Poof. The "deal" had disappeared, whether the non-intentionally abusive mail-order customers realized it our not. However, understand that the photo-courses were not intended as some sort of "revenge", but rather, they came into existence as a natural evolution of the business scene at that time. The course was, in fact, a needed service.

The point is, there was now tangible added-value in buying a camera at the store, compared to buying by mail-order (by this I mean to say that the demonstration, explanation and selection aid given by a salesman in a store is rarely appreciated as a service and usually taken for granted. We, as customers, normally view the salesman as someone who is trying to make a commission on something we were going to buy "anyway". That's a clerk. A good and honest salesperson —yes, they exist— is one who helps you select the right equipment at an acceptable price. That service deserves to be recognized and paid for just as a photographer should be compensated for more than just the cost of film).

I will agree that certain customers —notably, those at a professional level— didn't give a hoot about such a photo course . . . but, then again, they ordinarily didn't need as much demo and explanation (this was not necessarily the case!) and already understood the value of dealing with a local dealer, especially when it came to exchanging faulty or un-wanted equipment quickly, or getting loaner equipment for repairs-under-guarantee, etc. It shouldn't be forgotten that time is money, too!

But a "deal" isn't only about money. Please don't get me wrong; I'm all for saving money, too! However, if something is cheaper somewhere, —especially when it's appreciably cheaper— I think it's useful to ask oneself out-loud before buying: what would I be giving-up or losing by paying less? When this question is honestly answered, and if you can live with whatever difference there is, then buy it. Sorry if this seems too obvious to state, but I really believe that many people think it's completely possible to buy something cheaper and have all other things remain equal. Perhaps it can happen, but I think it's rare.

As I write this, I'm thinking about the absolutely incredible deal I recently got on a used Linhof monorail view camera. After closer inspection, I found that I'll have to go out and buy some Naval Jelly, try to find a focussing track without broken teeth and replace the bellows ... but, for the price I paid, I can live with it!

(PLEASE NOTE: This post in no way intends to defend or excuse bad customer service! I live in France, where the customer is not only NOT necessarily the "king" ... sometimes he is even the object of disdain! Therefore I, too am frequently a victim of bad CS and I sympathize with those who experience the same problem).

Best,

Christopher

.
 
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