Currently needed Lab Service

Bob Carnie · Jul 17, 2016

So after years of working for and then owning a variety of photographic labs, I am in the position of having lots of experience, tons of equipment and I am looking to
hunker down for the next bunch of years and build a resource for photographers.
I am in Canada , but with the internet and shipping options the world has shrunk a bit. I believe mail order is possible, I am seeing this
with many services I do , and I want to expand some niche services .

What services do you think are needed? (high quality film and contact service)
What retail items do you think are not well found in our current market.? - (pre cut matts, sleeves, chemical kits.)

Right off the hop I think a mail order , film process and scan , print service from 35mm - 11 x14 film would be of value.
Jobo is my process of choice for small runs but Jobo also makes a Techno Lab which can handle C41 and BW quite easily.

so these are two things I am thinking about right away.

thoughts, comments, suggestions?

Bob

AgX · Jul 17, 2016

Bob Carnie said:
Jobo is my process of choice for small runs but Jobo also makes a Techno Lab which can handle C41 and BW quite easily.

Jobo does not make it, but a italian manufacturer, with a vast array of commercial photo lab machines.

bdial · Jul 17, 2016

I think there would be a reasonable demand. Among other things, I can see where there would be a market to serve folks who'd like to photograph on sheet film, but don't have the resources or inclination to be able to print it.

Is E-6 a consideration?
High quality color printing, though there isn't too much of a shortage for that.

Bob Carnie · Jul 17, 2016

bdial said:
I think there would be a reasonable demand. Among other things, I can see where there would be a market to serve folks who'd like to photograph on sheet film, but don't have the resources or inclination to be able to print it.

Is E-6 a consideration?
High quality color printing, though there isn't too much of a shortage for that.

E6 is not something I would like to entertain, my expertise does not suit that market, I am more of a C41 and BW film type of operation.

MattKing · Jul 17, 2016

For folks in Canada, it would depend a lot on whether you can make favourable arrangements with Canada Post.

We are fairly well served out here in the Vancouver area, but I don't think the options are good for much of the rest of the western part of the country.

A decent arrangement with the few photo stores that remain would also help - having film and prints shipped from and to a store can be a real advantage.

Old-N-Feeble · Jul 17, 2016

Maybe it would be more efficient to partner with retail operators who can act as pickup/drop-off points for several customers. You could have longer turnaround times to collect more work so several customer's orders can be packed in one box.

Peter Schrager · Jul 17, 2016

Bob getting the word about making lambda prints could be a great niche market for you
Silver. Gelatin is far from dead..lots of people using digital who would like to get a real print made....also more workshops relative to LF and alternative processes. .these are gaining momentum rapidly...

AgX · Jul 17, 2016

Bob Carnie said:
E6 is not something I would like to entertain, my expertise does not suit that market, I am more of a C41 and BW film type of operation.

I don't see what other expertise one would need for E-6 processing if one can do C-41 processing up to manufacturer standard.

cmacd123 · Jul 17, 2016

AgX said:
I don't see what other expertise one would need for E-6 processing if one can do C-41 processing up to manufacturer standard.

there is the whole "Mounting issue" particularly for medium format and unusual 35mm formats. (half frame for example.)

cmacd123 · Jul 17, 2016

one item you might want to look at is arranging a US address with a secure forwarding service as sending exposed film across the border can be scary. many Canadian Firms have a Phantom address in Watertown or Buffalo or Syracuse. perhaps a service like B&H uses to send stuff to Canada Via Purolator.

Bob Carnie · Jul 18, 2016

cmacd123 said:
one item you might want to look at is arranging a US address with a secure forwarding service as sending exposed film across the border can be scary. many Canadian Firms have a Phantom address in Watertown or Buffalo or Syracuse. perhaps a service like B&H uses to send stuff to Canada Via Purolator.

Exactly the though process I am on, Buffalo is close , this may be the single most important step. Very complicated times to figure the Border, and without getting political it could get worse if our cousins in the south start getting nervous about us in the north.

MattKing · Jul 18, 2016

Bob Carnie said:
Exactly the though process I am on, Buffalo is close , this may be the single most important step. Very complicated times to figure the Border, and without getting political it could get worse if our cousins in the south start getting nervous about us in the north.

Speak to a customs broker about this subject.
If you have customer's films sent to Buffalo, you are going to have to import them "in bulk" each time you bring a batch across the line. That is a commercial importation, and there are documentation requirements (and potentially fees) involved.

You may have some immigration issues as well, because the person going down to Buffalo to pick up the film may be deemed to be "working" in the US when he/she does that. Do you have any US/dual citizens on staff?

Bob Carnie · Jul 18, 2016

MattKing said:
Speak to a customs broker about this subject.
If you have customer's films sent to Buffalo, you are going to have to import them "in bulk" each time you bring a batch across the line. That is a commercial importation, and there are documentation requirements (and potentially fees) involved.

You may have some immigration issues as well, because the person going down to Buffalo to pick up the film may be deemed to be "working" in the US when he/she does that. Do you have any US/dual citizens on staff?

No - this really is going to be a issue for clients in the states not wanting to deal with customs and duties no matter how good the product and service is. So much for Free Trade between our two countries.

skorpiius · Jul 18, 2016

MattKing said:
For folks in Canada, it would depend a lot on whether you can make favourable arrangements with Canada Post.

We are fairly well served out here in the Vancouver area, but I don't think the options are good for much of the rest of the western part of the country.

A decent arrangement with the few photo stores that remain would also help - having film and prints shipped from and to a store can be a real advantage.

Yep. I have local 35mm C-41, E-6, and b&w, but for 120 I need to send out, which right off the bat tends to cost around $15 shipping each way. Starting with a $30 shipping cost really dampens my 120 shooting

London Drugs which has stores in BC, AB, SK, and MB used to have a contract with a Vancouver store for 120, but that is gone, either due to QC problems or just decided not to renew, depending on who you talk to. If you had a contract with them to do 120 processing (ideally C41, B&w, and E-6) that would be huge.

Bob Carnie · Jul 18, 2016

skorpiius said:
Yep. I have local 35mm C-41, E-6, and b&w, but for 120 I need to send out, which right off the bat tends to cost around $15 shipping each way. Starting with a $30 shipping cost really dampens my 120 shooting

This is an area of concern , I have in the past worked with camera stores and have had pick up service, but your kind of screwed with one roll at a time. I am
not sure of how to solve this type of cost problem. What some labs do is hold onto the film and send scans , with the hope of sending bulk twice a year the accumulated film.
Not sure if this would work in your case.

Bob Carnie · Jul 18, 2016

AgX said:
I don't see what other expertise one would need for E-6 processing if one can do C-41 processing up to manufacturer standard.

Quality control is on a much different level to consistently keep a E6line in order vs a C41 line.

I have run both types of labs, the main reason the big players have dropped E6 is keeping the plots consistent.

skorpiius · Jul 18, 2016

Bob Carnie said:
Quality control is on a much different level to consistently keep a E6line in order vs a C41 line.

I have run both types of labs, the main reason the big players have dropped E6 is keeping the plots consistent.

Is collecting enough rolls to run a once in a while big batch which depletes the E6 chemistry all at once a way to mitigate that issue?

Bob Carnie · Jul 18, 2016

skorpiius said:
Is collecting enough rolls to run a once in a while big batch which depletes the E6 chemistry all at once a way to mitigate that issue?

The best E6 labs used very large Refrema machines, which means a lot of chemistry to balance, Some of the best labs ran 7 days a week 15-24 hrs a day, this is what a good E6 line needs, and it needs to be daily, now I am talking about high quality precision E6 , not mom and pop set up.{though nothing wrong with m&p)

But your suggestion is how I would run C41 and BW where I could dump and clean , switch process then dump and clean and move back , the build up of film would allow for a natural ebb and flow in the new times we are living in where film is a very uncommon beast.

MattKing · Jul 18, 2016

Bob Carnie said:
No - this really is going to be a issue for clients in the states not wanting to deal with customs and duties no matter how good the product and service is. So much for Free Trade between our two countries.

Bob:
What I am talking about is you handling the import/export issues.
They may be simpler than you think, if you are set up properly to do it.

removed account4 · Jul 18, 2016

hi bob

i think the border / customs / duty will be a pain,
unless you have a way to make it not a pain.
i have shipped and gotten things from canada
and it can be "difficult and expensive".. so
transit might be your weak link. maybe you can have a satilite office
south of the border that expidites shipments ? or like the old grocery stores
( or bank drive up window ) used to have for checks you can have a giant vacuum tube for your clients to
put their film in and it ends up at your lab. shipping from canada to the states can sometimes be 1/2 the price
of the states to canada ..

AgX · Jul 18, 2016

skorpiius said:
Is collecting enough rolls to run a once in a while big batch which depletes the E6 chemistry all at once a way to mitigate that issue?

A good E-6 processing does not go to depletion but for replenishing, and constant control (fluids and standard test-strips).
Of course one could do a big batch under replenishment and thereafter discard all critical baths, due to lag in time before processing the next batch.

Going to depletion would mean "somehow" adjusting the process over time for the changes in baths composition.

cmacd123 · Jul 18, 2016

MattKing said:
Bob:
What I am talking about is you handling the import/export issues.
They may be simpler than you think, if you are set up properly to do it.

I know the folks at B&H have a deal with Purolator where they pack the product and send purolator the details, Purolator does the actuall importing into canada, and there regualrly scheduled truck brings the stuff across the border, where it is put into purolators normal canadian Domestic stream. Many carriers have such a system, but the service can be pricey.

Lee Valley tools ships from Ottawa, but they send a truck to Buffalo on a regular basis, again with the paperwork done, and once it is in the states, there truck drops it off as domestic US shipments at (I believe UPS)

Matt5791 · Jul 23, 2016

Bob Carnie said:
Techno Lab which can handle C41 and BW quite easily.

I may be wrong, but I think Techno lab stopped making film processors and diversified into other industries.

Bob Carnie · Jul 23, 2016

Matt5791 said:
I may be wrong, but I think Techno lab stopped making film processors and diversified into other industries.

I think you are right, Omer from Cat Labs informed me of this.

TheFlyingCamera · Jul 23, 2016

Another service to consider is making digitally enlarged negatives tailored to specific processes. I've been through that goat rope myself, several times, and I'm still working on getting the process nailed down.

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