Current state - digital neg to silver gelatin print

Tim Gray · Jan 12, 2021

Never done digital negatives before. I know it is a viable route for alternative printing, but what is the current state of using a digital negative for silver gelatin contact prints? To constrain the conversation a bit, what if I was looking to do 11x14 or smaller on something like Ilford Warmtone FB. Would a current model Epson provide equivalent quality to a 35mm print? Worse? Would one need custom ink or would stock Epson ink cut it? What printing substrate works best?

I’ve searched a bunch here and elsewhere but am still unclear what the quality of the output is.

Alan9940 · Jan 12, 2021

Though I make digital negatives regularly for pt/pd printing, I've never been successful crafting one for silver printing. The "grain" of the negative is clearly revealed; and I was doing contact prints. IMO, trying to enlarge one would not be a pleasant experience. For silver, I'd suggest looking into Jon Cone's PiezoDN or, possibly, the software from bwmastery.com.

Tim Gray · Jan 13, 2021

By grain I assume you mean the inkjet ink pattern?

Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting enlarging. I understand that the resolution of these printers is not high enough for that.

Alan9940 · Jan 13, 2021

Tim Gray said:
By grain I assume you mean the inkjet ink pattern?

Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting enlarging. I understand that the resolution of these printers is not high enough for that.

Yes, the stochastic pattern of the ink dots. I had contact printed all the negs I tried, but not happy with the results. If you find a workable solution, please post here as I would be very interested.

JBrunner · Jan 13, 2021

Alan9940 said:
Yes, the stochastic pattern of the ink dots. I had contact printed all the negs I tried, but not happy with the results. If you find a workable solution, please post here as I would be very interested.

Back when I was contact printing, I had the same experience. The density and exposure was far easier to deal with than alt process, but the prints clearly revealed the pattern. However, that was 15 years ago. Perhaps printers have improved, or there is a better way. I never pursued it

Tim Gray · Jan 13, 2021

Hmm unfortunate. I’d love to play around with this process, but it is sounding like it is not promising enough to buy a printer.

MattKing · Jan 13, 2021

I have encountered someone who was experimenting with this, with a high end recent printer and specialized inks and calibrations, and was excited about the results he was getting, but for the life of me I can't remember who it was.
It was at a meeting of the Pacifica Chapter of the Center for Photographic History and Technology a few years ago.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 13, 2021

I've made them here at the school I teach at. Mind you, I crafted the negatives with an Epson 1400. I used Chartthrob to generate a curve, and QTR, for the negative. The prints look totally fine to me but can show artifacts in smooth toned areas if the heads go out of alignment...which happens more often than never. Ilford MG RC Pearl was used.

MattKing · Jan 13, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
if the heads go out of alignment...which happens more often than never

Is this the printer, or your students?

Alan9940 · Jan 13, 2021

JBrunner said:
Back when I was contact printing, I had the same experience. The density and exposure was far easier to deal with than alt process, but the prints clearly revealed the pattern. However, that was 15 years ago. Perhaps printers have improved, or there is a better way. I never pursued it

I use an Epson R2880 printing at 5760dpi with high speed off for all my digital negs. True, this printer ain't exactly new at this point, but I believe it's good 'nuff. I'm sure there must be an acceptable way to generate a digital negative for silver printing.

MattKing · Jan 13, 2021

I'm sure the choice of inks and the software settings are important.

radiant · Jan 13, 2021

Spamming my own thread but to get perspective to printing quality, I purchased 170 color laser and tried printing negatives, here is more: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/laser-printed-digital-negatives.180131/

I was tossing around this idea and going forth and back should I buy inkjet. I would guess any inkjet does better quality than laserjet (or I hope) so starting with cheap inkjet isn't bad choice. You get then feeling if you want more quality.

I'm using my laser negatives for lith and some alternative work so it doesn't need to be top notch quality. Actually I bit like the laser dithering "grain"

Patrick Robert James · Jan 13, 2021

There is no reason why you couldn't do it. I was doing it 20 years ago but I lost interest. It would just depend on what you wanted your images to look like and if they suited that. I tend to make grainy images so the patters of the printer weren't noticeable. They did look a bit different, but I never really pursued the process.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 13, 2021

MattKing said:
Is this the printer, or your students?

School's printer. Mine is the P400. Smaller droplets. Much nicer.

MattKing · Jan 13, 2021

Andrew,
students, not students'

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 13, 2021

MattKing said:
Andrew,
students, not students'

HA HA I get it... Got to stop using my phone without wearing my glasses!

removed account4 · Jan 13, 2021

I've used Digital PAPER + Digital Pictorico negatives for AZO prints, and Salt Prints, I haven't used them for prints on other (DOP) papers. They worked fine.

Current state - digital neg to silver gelatin print

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