Current Options for DIY C-41 Chemistry?

B&Wpositive · Mar 9, 2015

It's time. All the remaining local photo labs charge more than I can afford just to develop a roll and nothing else (more than Costco charged for develop, print, and CD combined), and I have lots of film I want to be able to keep using. Mail order is fine for a special roll here or there, but is even more expensive. What are all the current options for C-41 if I do it myself? Do any have separate bleach and fix? If not, which combined ones are the best on the market? How do they all compare?

Note: my question is a bit different than the other recent one by another poster. I'm looking more for succinct judgments/summaries from actual users and why you like a certain one. I hope both threads can remain open. Thanks.

What motivated this: I called a local processing lab to verify the cost per roll, and almost chocked when the stated price was double that listed on their website.

Daire Quinlan · Mar 9, 2015

I've had great success using the Fuji Hunt 5L press c-41 kits. I do it up 500ml at a time, store the rest of the concentrates under propane, and use the 500ml for anything up to 5 rolls before discarding it and doing up another batch. I get the kit for about 40/50 depending so my dev costs are about 1 a roll which isn't too bad.

However I don't think that particular kit is available in the US if that's where you're based. Other US'ians have bemoaned the lack of good C-41 chemicals before now.

jspillane · Mar 9, 2015

I have had very good luck with the tetenal press kits. They are cheap enough and are good for far more rolls than advertised. I understand that they are theoretically less ideal than liquids, but I simply don't shoot enough C41 to justify the effort and space on the others (I live in a small NYC apartment and share the space with others, so having lots of bottles of chemistry in the fridge is kind of a no go for me). They work well and are really no harder than B&W chemistry.

The c41 I have processed this way looks better than what I used to get from minilabs, honestly.

EdSawyer · Mar 9, 2015

There's a sticky here or on LFPF about Color chemistry sources, etc.

Xmas · Mar 9, 2015

There are formula available for from scratch mix of the C41 process with Blix or bleach and fix, depends where you live how easy a complete set of chemicals to source would be.

A micro balance rubber gloves etc are the only other requirements, and a high temperature thermometer.

It is not a difficult process if you already do retained silver home processing.

Off the shelf kits might be cheaper, depends on suppliers.

B&Wpositive · Mar 9, 2015

Xmas said:
Off the shelf kits might be cheaper, depends on suppliers.

Definitely the way I'm going.

mts · Mar 9, 2015

I haven't used any commercial C-41 either labs or kits for over 20 years. I scratch-mix C-41 chemistry from alternative formulae and have had consistent results without any problems. Negatives processed years ago show no effect of aging and are stored in transparent archival book pages, 5 frames per strip and up to 7 strips per page. I mix in 1 liter size, use fixer and bleach for many rolls processing these steps by inspection with Nikkor reels. I mix developer when I have accumulated 6 rolls or so, and it keeps for at least 3 weeks.

To use this method you must cultivate necessary lab skills, use an accurate scale, assemble a store of bulk chemical components, and a have a good pH meter. There is an initial investment but you then always have chemistry available "on demand" without the need to locate a source and order. Done in this manner, C-41 is somewhat easier than processing b&w because there is no need for deciding on developer and processing times, etc.

Even at today's cost for chemical stock the cost per liter of chemistry is less than $10, probable a lot less for me because I assembled my stock years ago at far less cost. That means the cost per roll is a dollar (US) or less. Unfortunately the supply of bulk film is drying up. I no longer find any Portra 160NC and Fuji bulk is evidently long gone as well.

RPC · Mar 10, 2015

As we are seeing, C-41 developing is getting harder to find and so is C-41 chemistry. I knew this was coming years ago so looked into scratch-mixing my own C-41 chemistry like mts. I have aquired good formulas to use for developer and have used ferricyanide bleach which is much cheaper than standard C-41 bleach. The raw chemicals are powders so will last for years so one can stock up and not have to worry about concentrates going bad. Currently I am using Kodak C-41 chemistry I got when the lab I work at went digital, but when that runs out I will switch entirely to scratch-mix. I think scratch-mixing your own is something anyone who does C-41 should look into since someday it will likely go away entirely and scratch-mixing will be the only way to do it. I have done similarly with RA-4.

Xmas · Mar 10, 2015

mts said:
a have a good pH meter.

Never bothered with that

mts said:
Unfortunately the supply of bulk film is drying up. I no longer find any Portra 160NC and Fuji bulk is evidently long gone as well.

I still have about 1500 foot of Fuji C41, in the fridge.

You might still get some in estate sales.

phildil · Mar 10, 2015

I've used the Tetenal C41 liquid kits for some years now. They are easy to find (here in the UK at least) and give good results. The bleach and fix is combined into one bath. I've made them last many months by mixing up the dev and decanting it into pop bottles, expelling the air and keeping in the fridge.

Ko.Fe. · Mar 10, 2015

Any links for scratch-mix formulas?
I went through sticky pages (some) and it is about kits.
I have Jobo-Telenal 1L press kit, but I'm getting red skin and eyes irritating after developing even with fresh air blowing at me.

RPC · Mar 10, 2015

Here is a thread discussing a member's concoction of a formula that has been used successfully by APUG members. The final formula is near the end. Note that if you use distilled water you can eliminate the A905 and Calgon.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

LarsAC · Mar 13, 2015

Hello,

Just recently I a recipe for a two-bath developer for C41 caught my interest:

http://silent1.home.netcom.com/Photography/Dilutions and Times.html#2-bath_C-41

I guess I'll give it a try after having first results with the typical C41 kits.

Regards,
Lars

RPC · Mar 14, 2015

LarsAC said:
Hello,

Just recently I a recipe for a two-bath developer for C41 caught my interest:

http://silent1.home.netcom.com/Photography/Dilutions and Times.html#2-bath_C-41

I guess I'll give it a try after having first results with the typical C41 kits.

Regards,
Lars

I have tried this developer and it gives inferior results to standard C-41 developers because the development temperature (75 F) is too low and crossover results. Plus, it is a divided developer and with today's films, the emulsion layers are thin and cannot hold enough developing agent for proper development before it is exausted in Bath B and images are low in contrast. The results will vary among different films. When this developer was devised years ago, it may have given good results but films have changed since then.

polyglot · Mar 14, 2015

Make sure you get a kit with separate bleach and fix. Best options (for quantities under 20L) are IMHO the Fuji Hunt 5L and Rollei Digibase (any appropriate size). Read the FAQ link in my signature.

If you buy the Fuji kit, note you're getting a lot more bleach+fix capacity than dev capacity, and bleach is the expensive part. So keep it, and buy some cheap (e.g. Rollei) developer to use with the leftover Fuji bleach+fix.

LarsAC · Mar 14, 2015

RPC said:
I have tried this developer and it gives inferior results to standard C-41 developers because the development temperature (75 F) is too low and crossover results. Plus, it is a divided developer and with today's films, the emulsion layers are thin and cannot hold enough developing agent for proper development before it is exausted in Bath B and images are low in contrast. The results will vary among different films. When this developer was devised years ago, it may have given good results but films have changed since then.

Hello,

Interesting explanation, thanks for sharing your experiences. Some googling yielded an investigation regarding temperature an pH of that developer: http://caffenolcolor.blogspot.de/2014/06/c-41-for-everyone.html?m=1

I consider this more of a fun experiment, anyway.

Lars

RPC · Mar 14, 2015

LarsAC said:
Hello,

Interesting explanation, thanks for sharing your experiences. Some googling yielded an investigation regarding temperature an pH of that developer: http://caffenolcolor.blogspot.de/2014/06/c-41-for-everyone.html?m=1

I consider this more of a fun experiment, anyway.

Lars

This developer has been discussed in this forum before and the general consensus was that it produces inferior results with todays films and while improvements may be made, the low temperature factor alone will prevent high quality images. If you try to make it work at the proper temperature, then you might as well use the standard C-41 process.

I wouldn't take the images shown at that link seriously as one should never judge photographs based on internet reproductions. The images he shows could have been manipulated and looks like it to me. I tried it with various films and found Fuji films gave the best results and Kodak the worst but none was as vivid and contrasty as his images. Now, I made optical prints from my negatives, if you scan then you can manipulate and likely improve to your heart's content.

When used with the Fuji films the quality may be acceptable for non-critical applications, where less-than-accurate color and low contrast may be acceptable to some. In that case experimenting to improve the quality may be worthwhile.

Dick Everhard · Mar 18, 2015

Hi all,
I'm planning to use Rollei Digibase C-41 kit to process my colour film for the first time.
One of the issues that I'm concerned about is whether the stabilizer from the kit contains formaldehyde. The trouble is that once you pour stabilizer with formadehyde content into your plastic processing tank it will never be washed away completely and the chemicals in all subsequent processing sessions will be "poisoned".

I use a stainless steel tank but I'm still concerned whether formaldehyde (if any present in the Rollei stabilizer) can also affect steel similarly to how it does to plastic.

Any comments and advise highly appreciated!

mklw1954 · Mar 19, 2015

I like the Unicolor 1-liter powder kits, available from Freestyle for $19. I believe they are similar to the Tetenal press kits. I get 20 rolls processed, but this is based on saving them up and developing them all within a few days and increasing developer and blix times 30 seconds for the last 4 rolls.

I used a Digibase kit once with separate bleach and fix (when they were available from Freestyle; now only blix kits are available) and saw no difference between the quality of negatives done with Digibase and Unicolor (a blix kit). I've re-printed Unicolor negatives a few years later and they are fine, i.e., same enlarger color filtration balance each time. The only modification is to add 1/2 teaspoon PhotoFlo concentrate to 1 liter of stabilizer, and repeat every 8 rolls, to eliminate water drying marks.

If you're interested, more details on use can be provided. You don't need any sophisticated processing equipment as simple water baths can be used to get the proper processing temperatures

Ko.Fe. · Mar 19, 2015

I checked those formulas in provided links. Unfortunately, it is all Chinese to me.
Going to continue with Telenal/Jobo 1L C-41 Press Kit from BH.
I have one mixed in 2013, storing in the fridge, using periodically, 20+ films as of now.

RPC · Mar 19, 2015

If you want something simple try this formula. It is not the official c-41 formula but I have tried it with a number of films and got good results visually and sensitometrically. You should try a test roll or two and see if it suits you.

distilled water 800 ml
potassium carbonate 36 g
sodium sulfite 4 g
sodium bromide 1.3 g
CD-4 5g
distilled water to make 1 liter

Just as with regular C-41 developer, the pH must be about 10.1 and is used at 100 F. Follow with bleach, fix and final rinse as usual.

There are plenty of formulas here on APUG for simple and good bleach and fixer formulas.

peter k. · Mar 19, 2015

I'm in the US... could someone please explain to me why the Digabase Kit cannot be purchased here anymore? I use to get it from Freestyle.. but no one carries it now.

hka · Mar 20, 2015

Maybe because a quality issue?

RPC · Mar 20, 2015

Dick Everhard said:
Hi all,
I'm planning to use Rollei Digibase C-41 kit to process my colour film for the first time.
One of the issues that I'm concerned about is whether the stabilizer from the kit contains formaldehyde. The trouble is that once you pour stabilizer with formadehyde content into your plastic processing tank it will never be washed away completely and the chemicals in all subsequent processing sessions will be "poisoned".

I use a stainless steel tank but I'm still concerned whether formaldehyde (if any present in the Rollei stabilizer) can also affect steel similarly to how it does to plastic.

Any comments and advise highly appreciated!

My understanding is that dyes in modern films don't need stabilzing, and the last step in the C-41 process, usually called "Final Rinse" only prevents fungal growth over the years in films since stabilizing the dyes is no longer necessary. Formaldehyde was used to preserve or stabilize the dyes in the older "stabilizers" and since not needed any longer, I don't see why it your kit would include it, and also considering that it is unvironmentally unfriendly.

fdonadio · Mar 22, 2015

RPC said:
It is not the official c-41 formula but I have tried it with a number of films and got good results visually and sensitometrically.

RPC,

Is the official c-41 formula published anywhere? I looked for it for some time before I gave up...

Cheers,
Flavio

Current Options for DIY C-41 Chemistry?

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