Current Fiber Papers that Bleach Well with Potassium Ferricyanide?

analog65 · Oct 19, 2016

I would like to pick up some fiber paper and do some localized bleaching of highlights, etc with Potassium Ferricyanide. Based on what I am reading, certain papers like Ilford MGIV appears to not respond well to Potassium Ferricyanide.

Anyone have recent experience with some fiber papers that respond well to Potassium Ferricyanide bleaching?

Thanks

Andy

spijker · Oct 20, 2016

I did a darkroom workshop on bleaching with Potassium Ferricyanide several years ago and all the participants used Ilford MGIV FB. In my experience this paper responded well to the bleaching. What was the problem with this paper that you read about? I've done a bit of bleaching with Adox MCC and Adox Variotone WT recently and that worked well too. But I only use bleaching very sporadically. I have no experience with the newer Ilford Classic FB papers.

Menno

analog65 · Oct 20, 2016

Hi, thanks for the info. I found a few different people here on APUG and at the LF forum saying that Ilford MGIV didn't respond well to Ferricyanide. This is exactly why I ask questions like this and people like yourself have experience to provide valuable insight. The good news is that I already have some MGIV FB paper, so I will give it a try. Thanks for your help.

spijker said:
I did a darkroom workshop on bleaching with Potassium Ferricyanide several years ago and all the participants used Ilford MGIV FB. In my experience this paper responded well to the bleaching. What was the problem with this paper that you read about? I've done a bit of bleaching with Adox MCC and Adox Variotone WT recently and that worked well too. But I only use bleaching very sporadically. I have no experience with the newer Ilford Classic FB papers.

Menno

Ian Grant · Oct 20, 2016

All B&W papers respond well to Ferricyanide bleach, some particularly warmtone papers will respond faster than others.

Ian

Rich Ullsmith · Oct 20, 2016

Technique, dilution matter way more than brand of paper. Based on a thousand screw-ups, I can't blame any of them on the paper.

sedwards · Oct 20, 2016

Rich Ullsmith said:
Technique, dilution matter way more than brand of paper. Based on a thousand screw-ups, I can't blame any of them on the paper.

This is the most important. Technique matters. I've had good experiences with Ilford MGIV RC and Arista FB papers.

analog65 · Oct 20, 2016

I wanted to say thanks to everyone for your responses. I have a lot more confidence now to give this a try. My goal is to increase the contrast in my prints and lighten up specific areas of interest. Thanks again.

Andy

DREW WILEY · Oct 20, 2016

Since bleaching reduces the silver, that area tend to come out warmer in tone, esp if you are seeking a cold-toned image overall. Polygrade V worked
well for that conundrum, but alas, it has been discontinued. Warm papers are less of a problem. But I use Farmer's Reducer or a generic equivalent.

Ian Grant · Oct 20, 2016

Bleaching has no effect on the wrmth if it's purely being used as a reducer.

Ian

DREW WILEY · Oct 20, 2016

Smaller silver grain locally, not just less of em, so yes warmer, though sometimes more apparent after toning. It's a big practical problem for me,
so I regard bleaching as a last resort. If it just adds a tad of sparkle to tiny highlights, maybe nobody will notice, but anything bigger and one needs
the right paper and developer to hide one's hand.

Ian Grant · Oct 20, 2016

DREW WILEY said:
Smaller silver grain locally, not just less of em, so yes warmer, though sometimes more apparent after toning. It's a big practical problem for me,
so I regard bleaching as a last resort. If it just adds a tad of sparkle to tiny highlights, maybe nobody will notice, but anything bigger and one needs
the right paper and developer to hide one's hand.

Show some examples.

Doremus Scudder · Oct 21, 2016

I've had problems with split-toning of areas that have previously been bleached as well as times when rather strong bleaching of an area resulted in a tonal shift. I use local bleaching fairly regularly, and this really only happens when the bleaching is fairly extensive. I now keep a close eye on bleached areas when selenium toning and use a more dilute toning solution just to avoid this. Prints that change tone after bleaching just get tossed.

That said, I find bleaching a good tool and find that all the papers I regularly use respond just fine to a ferricyanide/bromide rehalogenating bleach. I use Galerie, Foma graded and VC, Slavich graded papers, Adox MC-110 and a few others; all fairly neutral-tone on as white a base as I can get.

Best,

Doremus

analog65 · Oct 21, 2016

Thanks Doremus!

Doremus Scudder said:
I've had problems with split-toning of areas that have previously been bleached as well as times when rather strong bleaching of an area resulted in a tonal shift. I use local bleaching fairly regularly, and this really only happens when the bleaching is fairly extensive. I now keep a close eye on bleached areas when selenium toning and use a more dilute toning solution just to avoid this. Prints that change tone after bleaching just get tossed.

That said, I find bleaching a good tool and find that all the papers I regularly use respond just fine to a ferricyanide/bromide rehalogenating bleach. I use Galerie, Foma graded and VC, Slavich graded papers, Adox MC-110 and a few others; all fairly neutral-tone on as white a base as I can get.

Best,

Doremus

DREW WILEY · Oct 24, 2016

Ian - tonal shifts that might ruin a fine print will not necessarily show the hue blemish over the web; and I don't even own a digital camera to demonstrate the effect on-line anyway. And as far as tossing out such print, yeah, you gotta do it, but with premium papers that starts adding up expense-wise pretty fast, so it helps to know in advance which papers are less susceptible to discoloration.

Craig75 · Oct 25, 2016

Ian Grant said:
Bleaching has no effect on the wrmth if it's purely being used as a reducer.

Ian

I used a dilute plain potassium ferricyonide bleach bath with ilford rd paper for maybe 30-40 mins and ended up with a nice yellowy golden tone in highlights (which i then managed to near obliterate by trying to bleach lightest highlights back out in stock bleach for a couple of seconds....) Tim Rudman's Master Printing book has an example in it of a pseudo lith effect and colour shift using a long dilute bath

Ian Grant · Oct 25, 2016

Craig75 said:
I used a dilute plain potassium ferricyonide bleach bath with ilford rd paper for maybe 30-40 mins and ended up with a nice yellowy golden tone in highlights (which i then managed to near obliterate by trying to bleach lightest highlights back out in stock bleach for a couple of seconds....) Tim Rudman's Master Printing book has an example in it of a pseudo lith effect and colour shift using a long dilute bath

That's a two different reason for bleaching, first is for reduction, the second for toning, you don't want a shift in image colour for reduction, where as that's the goal with toning.

In both cases how the image is printed will have a significant effect on how quickly the bleach works. I'm talking about the contrast and tonal range rather than the make/type of paper.

Ian

Craig75 · Oct 25, 2016

Ian Grant said:
That's a two different reason for bleaching, first is for reduction, the second for toning, you don't want a shift in image colour for reduction, where as that's the goal with toning.

In both cases how the image is printed will have a significant effect on how quickly the bleach works. I'm talking about the contrast and tonal range rather than the make/type of paper.

Ian

The fact that dilute bleach will act as both a toner and reducer at same time over an admittedly substantial time would suggest to me one could also experience a colour shift when trying to use it purely as a reducer (perhaps if the bleach is too dilute or a particular emulsion?). It might be helpful to know what strength and for how long people are using bleach before when they experience a colour shift

analog65 · Oct 25, 2016

I would not have thought about this, so I am glad that you mentioned it. I have Rudman's Lith books, so I will have to go check that out. That was not my original intention, but I like to try new things. Thanks!

Craig75 said:
I used a dilute plain potassium ferricyonide bleach bath with ilford rd paper for maybe 30-40 mins and ended up with a nice yellowy golden tone in highlights (which i then managed to near obliterate by trying to bleach lightest highlights back out in stock bleach for a couple of seconds....) Tim Rudman's Master Printing book has an example in it of a pseudo lith effect and colour shift using a long dilute bath

Craig75 · Oct 25, 2016

Hi Analog65 - its in the master printing book not the lith book. It's very easy to do tho if you dont have a copy to hand. In Ilford multigrade RC i got it to turn a nice golden yellow - Tim's example looks more like a copper tone effect.

Ian Grant · Oct 25, 2016

Craig75 said:
The fact that dilute bleach will act as both a toner and reducer at same time over an admittedly substantial time would suggest to me one could also experience a colour shift when trying to use it purely as a reducer (perhaps if the bleach is too dilute or a particular emulsion?). It might be helpful to know what strength and for how long people are using bleach before when they experience a colour shift

When used as a reducer it's quite different as fixer/or plain hypo is involved either as part of the reducer or after.

Ian

analog65 · Oct 25, 2016

Thanks for the tip. I have that book too... so, I will check it out.

Craig75 said:
Hi Analog65 - its in the master printing book not the lith book. It's very easy to do tho if you dont have a copy to hand. In Ilford multigrade RC i got it to turn a nice golden yellow - Tim's example looks more like a copper tone effect.

Josh W · Dec 29, 2020

Ilford FB WarmTone Glossy bleaches fast. I found about 4x faster than Ilford MG iv RC paper.

I got a slight copper-orange tint in my highlights. With RC I got that tint in some midtones. It's possible they were developed in Ilford warmtone developer. I haven't tried total reduction yet. Just playing with old test strips so far.

Current Fiber Papers that Bleach Well with Potassium Ferricyanide?

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