Current Adox CHSII 100 and Silvermax 100

braxus · Jul 16, 2019

I went looking for an old roll of Silvermax 100 in my freezer, and it seems I either used it or never ended up buying a roll. So I got out my 1 roll of CHSII 100. I know both of these films were on hiatus for a while until they could be produced again. My roll of CHSII is from the original run. That said, how would you compare the look of these two films, and compare to any other film out there? My rolls now get souped in ID11 as per what my lab uses. Back in the day the lab was using Xtol. Anyway since both of these films are I believe from the same manufacturer, and both 100 speed, and both old school like emulsions, how do they look? I'd like to try a roll of Silvermax 100, but not sure what to expect. Is CHSII 100 basically APX 100? Or would that be the Silvermax film?

eatfrog · Jul 16, 2019

chs 100 is basically a copy of efke 100.
silvermax is a copy of apx100.

JPD · Jul 16, 2019

Adox CHS 100 II is an improved version of the old Adox/Efke formulas. It's orthopanchromatic like Efke 25 and 50 and has finer grain than Efke 100.

Adox Silvermax is based on Agfa Scala (similar to APX 100 but optimised for reversal processing).

etn · Jul 16, 2019

JPD said:
Adox Silvermax is based on Agfa Scala (similar to APX 100 but optimised for reversal processing).

I understand that Scala is optimized for reversal processing, is Silvermax also optimized for reversal?

twelvetone12 · Jul 16, 2019

They are exactly the same thing, only the name is different

etn · Jul 16, 2019

Box ISO is different, though - does this mean the recommended exposure is 100 ISO for negative processing and 160 for reversal?

Thanks!!! learning every day

Nodda Duma · Jul 16, 2019

For Adox 100 CHS II, I found box speed works well.

Regards,
Jason

twelvetone12 · Jul 16, 2019

Exactly, they box it differently because it dives optimal results at 160 for reversal processing and 100 for negative.

Edit: I'm referring to scala/silvermax not chs!

JPD · Jul 16, 2019

etn said:
Box ISO is different, though - does this mean the recommended exposure is 100 ISO for negative processing and 160 for reversal?

Yes. .dr5 also recommend that you expose CHS 100 II at 160 for reversal processing. For some other films it's box speed, and lower for other films. http://www.dr5.com/blackandwhiteslide/filmreviewdev1.html

ISO 6 is recommended for Ferrania P30.

Team ADOX · Jul 17, 2019

braxus said:
I'd like to try a roll of Silvermax 100, but not sure what to expect. Is CHSII 100 basically APX 100? Or would that be the Silvermax film?

ADOX CHS 100 II:
The spectral sensivity is (almost) identical to the former CHS 100. But CHS 100 II is significantly sharper, higher resolving and finer grained than the old CHS 100. CHS 100 II has also a much better anti-halation-undercoat (AHU). As CHS 100 II is now made on modern machines also the whole product quality and QC is significantly improved to the former version.
CHS 100 II has nothing to do with APX 100.

ADOX Silvermax:
Is based on Agfa Scala technology. But Silvermax has finer grain and a bit higher max. contrast range (dynamic range). But the sensitivity (speed) of Silvermax is about 1/3 stop less compared to former Agfa Scala 200X.
ADOX Silvermax and ADOX Scala 160 BW are technically the same film and capable for reversal processing. We have always very clearly explained that. The reason for the two names/boxes is just that some photographers are looking for a dedicated/branded BW reversal film, and then overlook Silvermax. As ADOX Scala 160 BW is explicitly indicated and branded as a BW reversal film these photographers find their film without problems.

AgX · Jul 17, 2019

Team ADOX said:
ADOX Silvermax and ADOX Scala 160 BW are technically the same film and capable for reversal processing. We have always very clearly explained that.

With all respect, this is not clear to the average film user.

One either must be a film expert or maybe have followed all postings of Adox:
For both Scala films you do not even offer a datasheet.

Team ADOX · Jul 17, 2019

@AgX
We have to disagree. We've made it always very clear:
http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-scala-160/
http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-scala/
https://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/filme/adox-scala-160-bw-13536.html
https://www.fotoimpex.com/films/adox-scala-160-bw-13536.html

AgX · Jul 17, 2019

I read all 4 documents before and there is no statement of Adox Silvermax and Adox Scala being the same film.

Peter Schrager · Jul 17, 2019

I want to know the reason CHSII is not compatable with pyro developers
I used the older version and liked it but developed in pyro

Team ADOX · Jul 17, 2019

@AgX:
As already said above:
"The reason for the two names/boxes is just that some photographers are looking for a dedicated/branded BW reversal film, and then overlook Silvermax. As ADOX Scala 160 BW is explicitly indicated and branded as a BW reversal film these photographers find their film without problems."

Scala 160 BW has been branded just for those photographers explicitly looking for a "BW reversal film", branded as such. And Silvermax for those looking for a BW negative film. Our experience for years is that when you tell the photographers that a film is a dual purpose film - for both negative and reversal processing - not all photographers understand the message. A certain part thinks that only a film branded as BW reversal film can be used as such. Photographers are probably just used to films like former Agfa Scala 200X or Fomapan R, which were branded as reversal films only. And probably also because color negative and color reversal films are always branded differently because of the different processes. Therefore a dual purpose film - capable of being both developed as negative and positive/slide - is unknown or uncommon to lots of photographers, especially beginners.
We have to take our customers as they are.......
We've explained the technical identity when Scala 160 BW was introduced. And always when customers have asked us.

Team ADOX · Jul 17, 2019

Peter Schrager said:
I want to know the reason CHSII is not compatable with pyro developers
I used the older version and liked it but developed in pyro

In the description for CHS 100 II we've explained it:
http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-films-2/adox-chs-100-type-ii/
"Tanning developers (Pyrogallol, Brentkatechin) are not recomended for Films with an AHU as they can cause tiny emulsion liftoffs."

Please look at it this way: There could be problems. It is not the case that there are always problems and with every pyro developer. As also those developers are quite different from each other. So best is to make some tests with your individual pyro developer and look whether you see any problems.

AgX · Jul 17, 2019

Concerning your comment on Silvermax and Scala:
Instead of "branded as" you better use the term "designated as".

JPD · Jul 17, 2019

Team ADOX said:
The spectral sensivity is (almost) identical to the former CHS 100.

Efke described the 25 and 50 films as orthopanchromatic, and the 100 film as panchromatic. Adox CHS II seems to have a spectral sensitivity close to the Efke 100/old Adox CHS 100, more sensitive to red than Efke 25 and 50. You call it orthopanchromatic. It's confusing.

AgX · Jul 17, 2019

These terms are not well defined. And over the years spectral sensitisation of films in general varied strongly.

takilmaboxer · Jul 17, 2019

That's true, they aren't well defined. Orthopanchromatic generally meant weak red response. The curve showing spectral response for Efke 25 showed that its response was already weak at 600 nm, and nearly zero at 625 nm. CHS 100 goes past 625 and nears zero by 660 nm. That's close to modern "panchromatic" in that it's similar to Tri-x, FP4, etc. My own experience with E25 was that reds would print noticeably darker than with any other film. Based on that I don't see any available films today being "orthopanchromatic", as they all "see" red pretty well.
It was a nice option to have

Team ADOX · Jul 18, 2019

JPD said:
Efke described the 25 and 50 films as orthopanchromatic, and the 100 film as panchromatic. Adox CHS II seems to have a spectral sensitivity close to the Efke 100/old Adox CHS 100, more sensitive to red than Efke 25 and 50. You call it orthopanchromatic. It's confusing.

We've written concerning CHS 100 II that "The spectral sensivity is (almost) identical to the former CHS 100." See above. And the sensitivity for red is indeed a bit less compared to most other panchromatic films of similar speed on the market. Due to our tests and customer feedback it is also a bit more visible in test shots of color charts and real life photography compared to comparisons of spectral curves. Whether this difference is big or important enough each photographer has to decide for himself. Such assessments are very individual.
If someone wants a BW film which is more orthopanchromatic with even visibly darker red compared to CHS 100 II we offer ADOX CMS 20 II. This film renders red significantly darker, but there is still a significant and visible difference between red and black.

Nodda Duma · Jul 18, 2019

takilmaboxer said:
That's true, they aren't well defined. Orthopanchromatic generally meant weak red response. The curve showing spectral response for Efke 25 showed that its response was already weak at 600 nm, and nearly zero at 625 nm. CHS 100 goes past 625 and nears zero by 660 nm. That's close to modern "panchromatic" in that it's similar to Tri-x, FP4, etc. My own experience with E25 was that reds would print noticeably darker than with any other film. Based on that I don't see any available films today being "orthopanchromatic", as they all "see" red pretty well.
It was a nice option to have

That’s interesting, because by your definition my ASA 25 dry plate emulsion would be orthopanchromatic (I’ve found it is weak at 600 and nearly zero at 625), yet it uses only erythrosine — the original orthochromatic sensitizing dye — for color sensitization.

- Jason

Current Adox CHSII 100 and Silvermax 100

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