Curren 2015 C41 options?

silvermazda · Jun 15, 2015

Hi,
I was just shopping to update my 2014 batch of jobo/tetenal ~25USD chemicals. Since I was going to do this more than a hobby, I've taken a few semesters in the local college, I thought I would treat myself to Kodak chemistry. -I think I'll be shooting portra that is why-

So I order from B&H a bottle of Kodak c41 starter. I thought that was it for the developer, it wasn't. Apparently there was a ABC developer, but correct me if I'm wrong there is a Starter/replenisher type. Yay, more money spent. I was trying to keep it good, but cheap. As the local PhotoEngineer said in a few of his posts the developer is important and good luck getting the (who knows how many chemicals are used) chemicals to mix it. I thought that would be too much money and chemistry for me.

-My plan was this:
1. Get appropriate developer -kodak was my choice
2. I was going to get the bleach, but seemed costly and hard to get, so as B/W paper chemistry is involved, I'm using a "home made c41" recipe found online of ferricynide and potas. bromide.
3. Fixer, I think its 9 bucks at Unique photo where I am getting the dev. replenisher I need. Or I can use the envelop of B/W thiosufate fixer that B/w uses and is balanced with sodium this and that. I think its the same thing...do go into detail if you know better. thanks.
4. Final rinse, another 5 bucks, but the tetenal kit already has Hexamine. Only done 8 rolls on it, should last??? And yes already read P.E.'s definitive guide on Stabilizer's. No need for formaldehyde in 00+ film stocks.

How does that sound? I think of shooting 10 rolls of C41 this semester.

Sirius Glass · Jun 15, 2015

Welcome to APUG

Search for post by Photo Engineer, aka PE, who spent years at Kodak in research and development of film, film processing, paper and paper development.

RPC · Jun 16, 2015

At one time Kodak made straight C-41 developer kits but I don't think they do anymore. You have to buy replenisher, then add starter to make working solution developer, the way labs do it. That's if you want to go with Kodak chemicals. Straight developer kits are still made by other manufacturers.

If you use a ferricyanide bleach, you must use a clearing stop bath and wash between developer and bleach to avoid staining of the film. The regular C-41 bleach does not require this.

PE has said that fixers made for b&w should not be used for color work. I believe it is a pH problem. Also, if a sodium thiosulfate fixer as opposed to ammonium thiosulfate is used, it will fix much slower.

polyglot · Jun 16, 2015

Developer replenisher has 3 concentrates which you mix together with some water. You also need the starter, when starting your batch off for the first time, so the starter is not wasted.

A+B+C+water = dev replenisher
starter + replenisher = developer ready to use
used developer + replenisher = developer ready to use, and can be stored between sessions

If you want a kit of everything ready to go, buy a Fuji or Rollei. Don't forget you also need bleach, fix and final rinse. Don't use B&W bleaches, they will destroy the dyes in C41 film. B&W fixer I think is OK but have not tried it; you probably want to run it a bit more diluted. If PE says not to do it, then best not to do it.

Further details/instructions in the FAQ in my signature...

Edit: 10 rolls is a tiny tiny quantity; it's less than I batch-process in a day. You could buy one of the smallest Rollei or whatever kits and it'd cover your usage. The 5L Rollei and Fuji kits will do 80+ rolls each. If you're buying Kodak C41 concentrates, you should be expecting to process a few hundred rolls of film.

zehner21 · Jun 16, 2015

polyglot said:
[...] Rollei. [...]

The European version of the Rollei Digibase has a starter that must be added to the ABC solution.

silvermazda · Jun 17, 2015

Thank You. The kits are looking better everyday, but how is color fidelity with non-kodak kits?

polyglot · Jun 17, 2015

If you use a kit with separate bleach and fix (i.e. Fuji or Rollei), identical. It's the same stuff as used in labs. for example (some of mine)

Paul Verizzo · Jun 17, 2015

Wow, welcome to the black hole of trying to use minilab chemicals at home. It's a swamp of nomenclature and case lot minimum orders. A full load of all the right chemicals, including shipping is typically north of $200. There are plenty of LONG threads here trying to get a handle on it all.

I gave up and once again ordered a 2L Unicolor kit for about $34 from Freestyle. I"m not convinced blix is some sort of pact with the devil, especially if not pretending all your negs must be archival. Perfection can be the enemy of good enough. Especially if you scan for view or inkjet print, the original can be stored nice and fresh forever.

silvermazda · Jun 17, 2015

polyglot said:
for example(some of mine)

Great colors.

Paul Verizzo said:
Wow, welcome to the black hole... north of $200.
I gave up.. ordered a 2L Unicolor kit for about $34 from Freestyle. I"m not convinced blix is some sort of pact with the devil, especially if not pretending all your negs must be archival. Perfection can be the enemy of good enough. Especially if you scan for view or inkjet print, the original can be stored nice and fresh forever.

That's what I'm thinking exactly. Same kit. 3 part kit? I have the tetenal from BH, but I heard the blix was bad for edge sharpness/quality. And yes, inkjet. Sad world we live in. Most programs are going digital. I think I need to travel 20 miles south to a BFA/MFA program to learn RA4, because the college I'm going to thru out their color processors back in 2010 and cleared the last color enlargers 2014. There's 2 in the class room as a haunting reminder of a era gone. I never got a chance.

Paul Verizzo · Jun 17, 2015

silvermazda said:
Great colors.

That's what I'm thinking exactly. Same kit. 3 part kit? I have the tetenal from BH, but I heard the blix was bad for edge sharpness/quality. And yes, inkjet. Sad world we live in. Most programs are going digital. I think I need to travel 20 miles south to a BFA/MFA program to learn RA4, because the college I'm going to thru out their color processors back in 2010 and cleared the last color enlargers 2014. There's 2 in the class room as a haunting reminder of a era gone. I never got a chance.

I know that our beloved, curmudgeonly PE looks down on blix, but OTOH, he's a perfectionist.....which is a good quality for an engineer of any stripe. I hate it when a Boeing engineers proclaims "Good enough.........."

It's obviously a quality advantage when a lab, mini or macro?, uses separate bleach and fixer. Each can be controlled to remain spot on. But for home use? Most of the comment, even from PE, about alleged downsides of blix are mostly in the categories of "could, might, possibly." Not "will."

bvy · Jun 17, 2015

There are a lot of curmudgeons on this site, but PE is not one of them. He'll be the first to tell you what he knows and the first to tell you to do what you like.

As for C-41, here's everything you need including separate bleach and fix. I've not had any issues with minimum orders from Unique Photo. Use the bleach as is, mix the fixer with equal parts water. The starter, bleach, fixer and final rinse will last for several cycles (i.e. several reorders of developer replenisher) so consider that when doing your cost per roll analysis.

C-41 Developer Replenisher ($13.95)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/c-41-dev-repl-lorr-tm-5l-ek-kodak-xhaz-hazsp1-832-0608-8231672/

C-41 Developer Starter ($12.51)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/kodak-c-41-dev-starter-lorr-1-2l-6601074/

Separate Bleach and Fix ($34.00)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/...sing-unit-f2-for-color-negative-film-1173319/

Final Rinse ($2.95)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/kodak-flexicolor-sm-c-41sm-tank-final-rinse-1925254/

NedL · Jun 18, 2015

huh.. that's an interesting place... they are selling plus-x too!

Paul Verizzo · Jun 18, 2015

bvy said:
There are a lot of curmudgeons on this site, but PE is not one of them. He'll be the first to tell you what he knows and the first to tell you to do what you like.

As for C-41, here's everything you need including separate bleach and fix. I've not had any issues with minimum orders from Unique Photo. Use the bleach as is, mix the fixer with equal parts water. The starter, bleach, fixer and final rinse will last for several cycles (i.e. several reorders of developer replenisher) so consider that when doing your cost per roll analysis.

C-41 Developer Replenisher ($13.95)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/c-41-dev-repl-lorr-tm-5l-ek-kodak-xhaz-hazsp1-832-0608-8231672/

C-41 Developer Starter ($12.51)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/kodak-c-41-dev-starter-lorr-1-2l-6601074/

Separate Bleach and Fix ($34.00)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/...sing-unit-f2-for-color-negative-film-1173319/

Final Rinse ($2.95)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/kodak-flexicolor-sm-c-41sm-tank-final-rinse-1925254/

I know curmudgeonliness, friend. I are one. And PE will stick to his guns when he thinks he's correct. OK, knows he's correct. Just look at the famous tablespoon vs. weight battle with Patrick Gainer a few years ago.

Didn't you have to buy case lots from Unique? That's all I've ever heard, and when I online chatted with a sales rep, that's all they would sell me. That was only two months ago.

Sirius Glass · Jun 18, 2015

NedL said:
huh.. that's an interesting place... they are selling plus-x too!

But only in 135. Nothing in 120 for 4"x5".

silvermazda · Jun 25, 2015

You know what? I'm going to try to develop with the old jobo kit:
1. Use it as intended using a color chart
2. Use my method using traditional bleach/fix (ferricynide/thiosufate?? (the kodak pouch for BW))

Why?...to see if I should order the F2 kit...Damn. I'm having second thoughts...34 is not much.
Eh! Who still want to see the results? Just for kicks.

Edit: any recomendations for additional chemistry or specials on this site. I have never used them and want to make the most of it because of paying for shipping.

Sirius Glass · Jun 25, 2015

ulysses · Jun 29, 2015

bvy said:
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/c-41-dev-repl-lorr-tm-5l-ek-kodak-xhaz-hazsp1-832-0608-8231672/

I just wish you could filter their offerings by process type, if only just b&w, C41, E6, RA, etc. Filtering by color (black, clear, orange???) or brand is only minimally helpful.

Paul Verizzo · Jun 29, 2015

@BVY: My question remains unanswered: Didn't you have to buy case lots at Unique? My inquiries several months ago said that I did.

This is so like Kodak. "We've always done it this way, we are too big to fail." Jeez, guys, open a case, pull out a jug or whatever, jack the price up 50%, ship. You make a lot more money, we home C=41 types are happy and save a lot of money over the kit options available.

bvy · Jun 29, 2015

I bought one F2 unit but that was last year. No case minimum. I didn't get them on the phone or chat to see if it was okay. I just ordered and paid.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kb3lms · Jun 29, 2015

No case minimum. I didn't get them on the phone or chat to see if it was okay. I just ordered and paid.

My experiences with Unique Photo have been the same. The only thing I have found where they insisted on buying the case was roll RA-4 color paper.

However Kodak used to sell color paper in cases of 2 rolls and now many seem to be one roll instead. These can be a great deal, by the way despite the supposed difficulty of cutting the paper off the roll.

-- Jason

Paul Verizzo · Jun 30, 2015

bvy said:
I bought one F2 unit but that was last year. No case minimum. I didn't get them on the phone or chat to see if it was okay. I just ordered and paid.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Amazing. The chat I had with the sales rep was long and friendly. Too weird.

sfaber17 · Jul 2, 2015

When I order from Unique, they say HazMat requirements require you to order a case of 8 of the developer for example. Are you saying you managed to order single quantities?

Paul Verizzo · Jul 3, 2015

I've had a finger in the HazMat pie since the 1980's as both a consumer and a shipper, at one point. The fact is, that most shippers interpret as they wish. Just look at the differences between Freestyle, Adorama, and B&H for essentially the same products. When the whole OSHA/HazMat thing came about, they were insisting that many chemicals that we've known as benign for years be wrapped in double corrugated boxes, sealed with fiberglass reinforced gummed tape, and slapped with !!!! stickers as if kryptonite or plutonium. The functional, historical, reality, of course is that at least with photo chemicals the breaches have been rare

I've read of any number of purchasers of Unique chemicals that have experienced quite massive leakages upon delivery. Yet, UPS just did its thing and the Feds never swooped down.

Mi dos centavos.

Richard Man · Jul 4, 2015

bvy said:
...
As for C-41, here's everything you need including separate bleach and fix. I've not had any issues with minimum orders from Unique Photo. Use the bleach as is, mix the fixer with equal parts water. The starter, bleach, fixer and final rinse will last for several cycles (i.e. several reorders of developer replenisher) so consider that when doing your cost per roll analysis.

bvy, what are the replenishing schedules you recommend? For Portra 160 primarily and Portra 400 occasionally? Mainly for the Flexicolor LU/LORR developer, but also for the bleach/fix/final rinse.

Thanks

bvy · Jul 4, 2015

Richard Man said:
bvy, what are the replenishing schedules you recommend? For Portra 160 primarily and Portra 400 occasionally? Mainly for the Flexicolor LU/LORR developer, but also for the bleach/fix/final rinse.

Thanks

Happy to help. I use the developer one-shot -- it's cheap enough and I like as few variables as possible. That said, I do reclaim the developer, and will use it a second time for non-critical work and cross-processing. I always do a clip test before I develop anything.

Bleach, I use and reuse. I shake it up vigorously before any developing session, and add fresh periodically to replace what I lose from attrition. There may be other tests I could be or should be doing, but it's pretty durable stuff. I do a stop and rinse between the developer and bleach steps.

For fixer, I occasionally do a clearing test and replenish or replace as needed.

Final rinse is also cheap, and I tend to push its capacity needlessly. Every ten to twenty rolls is what I shoot for, or as it becomes dirty, dilute, discolored or ineffective.

Curren 2015 C41 options?

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