Curious- Are People Working On New Emulsions ?

wildbillbugman · Nov 6, 2015

Hi To All,
I was wondering this A.M. How many people, Besides Denise, Ron and me, are working on New emulsions? I do not mean copeing recipeis from books or web sights. I mean making never tried emulsions.
Just asking,
Bill

Ian Grant · Nov 6, 2015

I have in the past, and may start again in the future. In my case I needed an emulsion for a specific application and found it necessary to evolve an emulsion through experimentation to match my needs.

It's a lot easier now compared to when I began around 40 years ago as information on emulsion making has become far more freely and readily available mainly because if the Internet, as well as books published since then (1976).

Ian

RalphLambrecht · Nov 7, 2015

wildbillbugman said:
Hi To All,
I was wondering this A.M. How many people, Besides Denise, Ron and me, are working on New emulsions? I do not mean copeing recipeis from books or web sights. I mean making never tried emulsions.
Just asking,
Bill

I leave that to thepeople who have been trained and know how to do it.Nobody buys much film or paper anymore anyway. Most of what I do is digital these days anyway.

dwross · Nov 7, 2015

Perhaps the most enduring tradition in photography is leaving the tools and materials to the factories and using only whatever they say we should today. Best for them, of course, if the "permission slip" says something different every other month. No question that sometimes the new stuff is great fun and/or a real boon. I love Pictorico OHP -- long may it reign!

But really, "training" is just learning polished up to sell. Learning is free and freeing. There's no reason you have to make your own materials, but equally, there is absolutely no reason not to. Might actually achieve something positive for all the folks here who seem to have gotten bored with photography!
http://www.thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmlgennew.py?content=Journal

Never bored,
d

Ricardo Miranda · Nov 7, 2015

RalphLambrecht said:
I leave that to thepeople who have been trained and know how to do it.Nobody buys much film or paper anymore anyway. Most of what I do is digital these days anyway.

Then the question is: what are you doing here anyway since you are a digitographer? :confused:

wildbillbugman · Nov 8, 2015

Leaving things to those who are " trained" is like a snake swallowing its tail.
Bill

Photo Engineer · Nov 8, 2015

Well, yeah, I have several but there seems to be a big lack of interest outside of about 5 people. Even though the book sold well for its market (very well AAMOF), I see little feedback indicating any use of it or work on new emulsions except Bill.

I can introduce you to some new techniques though and that is either through chemistry or mechanical changes.

PE

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 9, 2015

How can I make kodachrome at home ? I want 200 rolls of kodachrome including development cost 25 dollars , by the way I can spend 25 minutes for everything. I dont want to work at dark and I dont want to stand from this chair. I have salt , sugar , pepper and egg , onion , tomato and apple at hand.

kb3lms · Nov 10, 2015

The season is arriving. There are a few things I have in mind.

Mostly, though, I feel the need for speed. That will be my main focus.

-- Jason

kb3lms · Nov 10, 2015

Might actually achieve something positive for all the folks here who seem to have gotten bored with photography!
Dead Link Removed

Oh, very nice on the 35mm, Denise. I tried doing that and had success as well. (You'll have to go read Denise's diary link if you want to know what she did.)

I have also had reasonable success using an old manual splicer with punch. Hanging chads are a problem but otherwise it works well enough.

Photo Engineer · Nov 10, 2015

Jason, HINT: if you want speed, depending on how much, you want to use a lot of Iodide, but to do that safely and avoid fog, you need to put it in the core. To do that, you need to start with Iodide in the kettle. This can get you in the iso 200 - 1000 readily depending on chemical sensitization (sulfur, gold etc..).

This procedure makes core-shell emulsions.

The general limit of Iodide outside the core precipitation would be about 3%, but in the core is 10% or better.

PE

poncho villa · Sep 12, 2016

My emulsions are eosiin and erythrosin .on eoside silver I find interesting also.I add 1 quart industrial ammonia into 5 gallon container approx 1 inch deep then set a Pyrex bowl into container. Lid to seal container has a 3 inch diameter hole in center I set a fat coffee cup into --the coffee cup.has many tiny holes that allows my dilutions to pass into the bottom container .I can mix different concoctions and these fall thru the ammonia atmosphetr into bowl which sets in industrial ammonia. My interests are formic acid concoctions and different types of small grain emulsion combinations

kb3lms · Sep 13, 2016

Over the last winter, I got drawn into an arduino and pump project to make a pumped emulsion. It works well enough but took a lot of time and left not nearly enough time for actually using it. I did get one emulsion made, 4.5% iodide and sensitized with sodium thiocyanate, and it was in the ISO 80-100 area. Still have some left to coat.

Ron, I started with the iodide in the kettle along with the bromide. I guess that puts it in the core? Or, would you start with ONLY iodide in the kettle?

Photo Engineer · Sep 13, 2016

Well, adding it all in the kettle makes it pretty much core. Using 1/2 in the kettle and 1/2 on the surface would give more speed if you can control the fog that might arise. I never suggest more than 3% total, but if 4.5% works, go for it.

PE

Photo Engineer · Sep 13, 2016

Regarding the Arduino, see the work by Nick Brandreth at GEH. He is routinely making single run emulsions with an inexpensive pump and controller.

I have the Arduino, but we have found it hard to adapt to and program so that the pump is controlled. You need some sort of "buffer" to prevent burnout of the Arduino due to the pump current draw.

PE

Prof_Pixel · Sep 13, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Regarding the Arduino, see the work by Nick Brandreth at GEH. He is routinely making single run emulsions with an inexpensive pump and controller.

Actually, Nick is using a pump with a variable voltage DC regulated power supply I put together. It can handle the current draw of the pump.

kb3lms · Sep 17, 2016

...but we have found it hard to adapt to and program so that the pump is controlled. You need some sort of "buffer" to prevent burnout of the Arduino due to the pump current draw.

The arduino can't drive the pump directly. You can either use a stepper motor controller chip or a MOSFET or Transistor. I am using a little stepper motor controller board you can buy for a few dollars through Amazon or eBay.

This requires PWM control of the pump to vary speed. Unfortunately, if you want a precipitation time of more than just a few minutes, PWM doesn't work so well with these small pumps at small quantities. The minimum pulse width that you can use is limited because you have to give the motor enough current so that it can develop enough torque to turn the pump.

I'm going to look into making a stepper driven syringe pump to add AgNO3 during the growth phase.The formula I am using now runs silver for 20 to 29 minutes (I am settling on closer to 20) during the growth phase and the pump doesn't reliably run that slowly for the quantities I am making.

The pump is good for the initial nucleation, though.

The variable voltage DC supply is much simpler than all this!

-- Jason

Photo Engineer · Sep 17, 2016

I was planning on using a control for high current devices, but programming an Arduino is just too complicated for some. Nick and Fred have a better way. It will be available soon to all.

PE

Bob Carnie · Sep 18, 2016

wildbillbugman said:
Hi To All,
I was wondering this A.M. How many people, Besides Denise, Ron and me, are working on New emulsions? I do not mean copeing recipeis from books or web sights. I mean making never tried emulsions.
Just asking,
Bill

Though I am not making emulsions, I am coating watercolor paper with pt pd and then layering gum layers with different mixtures of pigment, Playing with sizing, and different variations
is enough work for me for the rest of my life. I have found a set of processes that covers both colour and BW and will push the envelope.

I saw some of Ron's prints from the emulsions he made and was extremely impressed, and one day may walk this road you all are going down, I am very impressed with this
knowledge you all are gathering, One day there may be no real commercial silver paper available and what you folks do will become very important for anyone wanting to make the fine print.

removed account4 · Sep 18, 2016

wildbillbugman said:
Hi To All,
I was wondering this A.M. How many people, Besides Denise, Ron and me, are working on New emulsions? I do not mean copeing recipeis from books or web sights. I mean making never tried emulsions.
Just asking,
Bill

hi bill

i am working on an emulsion of my own. it might not be fancy, and it isn't in any books, just in my head and on paper.
i've made it once so far, and will be making it again when the weather cools off a bit and isn't in the 80s-90s.
i'm hoping to make paper negatives, contact prints silver gelatin paper ferrotypes ... and maybe glass cyanotypes with it in the end ...
making emulsions and things from scratch give endless possibilities and endless creative possibilities ...

dwross · Sep 18, 2016

I don't know if it counts as a "new" emulsion, but I'm making panchromatic film. (It's just my favorite orthochromatic recipe with a panchromatizing step.) I completely agree with John: "endless creative possibilities." Certainly a whole lot of fun and satisfaction in D.I.Y.
http://www.thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmlgendiary.py?content=Journal3

kb3lms · Sep 19, 2016

Denise,
That's really cool!

Ron,
Arduino programming is a busman's holiday anyway. Looking forward to seeing what Nick and Fred have done!

-- Jason

Photo Engineer · Sep 21, 2016

Denise, the sensitizing dye you refer to in your article is one recommended by me several years ago. There were quite a few others.

Here is the list again. It is from a Kodak catalog and gives a list of dyes that might be useful to home hobbyists among others.

PE

dwross · Sep 22, 2016

Jason, Thanks! It is cool. Everything that can be done with a silver halide in gelatin and light is cool. I'm gobsmacked every time I find another one -- and I've got a good idea of what to expect . I can only imagine the excitement of the people who first discovered silver gelatin and the near-miraculous uses thereafter. Think Muybridge and the running horses!

Good luck and great fun with your own work, d

dwross · Sep 22, 2016

Ron, thanks for posting that chart again. It's a goodie.
I think we're mostly talking with the choir here these days, but in case anyone is new and unaware, yet interested, here's a bit of info on "sensitizing." The take home message, I think, is that different optical sensitizers are chosen for where they peak. Using them, and interchanging them, is one way to customize an emulsion to a specific purpose beyond a general purpose panchromatic emulsion.
http://www.thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmlgen.py?content=07Nov2011

Curious- Are People Working On New Emulsions ?

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