Crown Graphic Question

[Ariston]

I'm thinking about dipping my toes in the large format pool by buying a Crown Graphic. Can some one tell me if all models have the side tripod mount for portrait orientation? I've seen a couple for sale where it wasn't obvious, so I am curious if that is something I should look for.

While we're on the topic, what else should I look out for on these cameras? ... specifically the Crown - I want something without the added weight of the focal plane shutter.

Thanks in advance.

 

[KN4SMF]

I'm thinking about dipping my toes in the large format pool by buying a Crown Graphic. Can some one tell me if all models have the side tripod mount for portrait orientation? I've seen a couple for sale where it wasn't obvious, so I am curious if that is something I should look for.

While we're on the topic, what else should I look out for on these cameras? ... specifically the Crown - I want something without the added weight of the focal plane shutter.

Thanks in advance.

Ever Graflex I ever saw had a tripod socket on the side. Ususally though you have to loosen the belt to see it or use it. I've had Crowns, and they are lighter, but it comes with a disadvantage. First, you'll need to go ahead and send out the shutter for CLA, as they are rarely accurate. As for the 1/400 setting, forget it. I've never seen one that went much faster than 1/200 even when set on 400. Now after all these years of owning and shooting Graphics, I'm sticking with the Speed and using the rear shutter.

 

[Ariston]

KN, are there no modern (unsticky) lenses/shutters that can be mounted on a lens board for the crown? Aren't the shutters part of the lens?

Forgive me if I'm asking obvious questions. I'm learning. The shutters for my RB are built into the lens, and I thought large format lenses were the same in this regard.

 

[Arklatexian]

I'm thinking about dipping my toes in the large format pool by buying a Crown Graphic. Can some one tell me if all models have the side tripod mount for portrait orientation? I've seen a couple for sale where it wasn't obvious, so I am curious if that is something I should look for.

While we're on the topic, what else should I look out for on these cameras? ... specifically the Crown - I want something without the added weight of the focal plane shutter.

Thanks in advance.

All the Crown (and Speed) Graphics that I have seen have the "side" tripod socket cleverly hidden under the hand-strap (if it has a strap). I always remove the strap on my Crown in order to use that socket. As to your other question, I would look for general "good-looks" which usually means the camera has not been abused or worn-out. If the camera comes with any 135mm lens in good condition, that too will usually tell you how well the camera has been treated. A 127mm lens "can" indicate that the camera was used for press photography. If I were you, I would also buy some infinity stops to use, should you buy a second (different focal length) lens. A late used edition of "Graphic, Graflex Photography" is a valuable source of information. You can learn much by owning one of these cameras in addition to the great quality of the photographs. Which reminds me. Within reason, you can never have too many film holders........Enjoy your purchase if you decide to buy a 4x5 Crown Graphic.. By the way, I learned early on that to get the most out of owing a camera of this type, you should do your own processing. Having a lab do your processing can get expensive.......Regards!

 

[Ariston]

Hi Ark, I was wondering about processing. I process my own 35mm and 120 film, and was unsure if there was some kind of light tight pan for 4x5. I just use a dark bag to load canisters and process in the light. Is 4x5 similar?

I noticed, though, that most labs only charge about $3 per sheet to process. Since I expect my volume of shots would be much lower, this doesn't seem too bad. I'm more concerned about how to scan them, since I don't have a darkroom for traditional printing.

 

[KN4SMF]

KN, are there no modern (unsticky) lenses/shutters that can be mounted on a lens board for the crown? Aren't the shutters part of the lens?

Forgive me if I'm asking obvious questions. I'm learning. The shutters for my RB are built into the lens, and I thought large format lenses were the same in this regard.

Yes the shutter is set in the lens. Therefor you send out the whole thing.I'm talking about the original lens, not a third party lens, which will necessitate calibrating the Kalart finder (which should be done anyway)..

 

[Arklatexian]

KN, are there no modern (unsticky) lenses/shutters that can be mounted on a lens board for the crown? Aren't the shutters part of the lens?

Forgive me if I'm asking obvious questions. I'm learning. The shutters for my RB are built into the lens, and I thought large format lenses were the same in this regard.

If you are using the "Speed" Graphic, you can use a "shutterless" lens because you have a shutter built into the camera. That is where the extra weight of a "speed" Graphic comes from. I only use lenses with shutters so I can use the same lenses on my "View" camera and vice-versa. I think that makes them more usable. Which rangefinder you will be using will largely depend upon when the camera was bought new. The latest Crown (Speed) Graphics have the rangefinder as well as the viewfinder on top of the camera and use cams (extremely hard to find. Some people make their own) to match the rangefinder to the lens.......Regards (again)

 

[Jojje]

I bought recently a very cheap Pacemaker Speed Graphic - I never intended to enter the large format world but it was really cheap and while already having a 4x5 Kodak enlarger - why not? Scruffy, but everything works, to my surprise even the focal plane shutter, the spring was easily tightened with the instructions found from Jo Lommen's site. These are big cameras to begin with and that focal plane shutter doesn't add that much... Bonus is, when on a shoestring budget you can use almost any lens you can find to shoot, old Soviet lenses cost a tenner or two - enlarger lenses and so on. And you really can shoot hand held with that 1/500th.
I would recommend making contact prints from negatives and scanning them. Can be done in every bathroom.
https://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/Nieuw Graflex/index.html

 

[removed account4]

I'm thinking about dipping my toes in the large format pool by buying a Crown Graphic. Can some one tell me if all models have the side tripod mount for portrait orientation? I've seen a couple for sale where it wasn't obvious, so I am curious if that is something I should look for.

While we're on the topic, what else should I look out for on these cameras? ... specifically the Crown - I want something without the added weight of the focal plane shutter.

Thanks in advance.

hi
you might consider going to graflex.org .. ( the graphlex book is great too ! )
it is the long standing home of all things graphic and graflex. poke around, read the posts and questions,
look at the brochure &c. some large format lenses come in a barrel ( no shutter )
some have a shutter between the elements. most likely any shuttered lens you
buy for your crown graphic will be used and will probably need a cla
( clean lubricate adjust ) to rejuvinate the shutter.
wollensak made a lot of lenses that were ( and still are ) used with these cameras
you might also look at ilex lenses too if you are looking for "vintage optics" but any
shuttered large format lenses that are more modern will work too. the added weight that a
speed graphic shutter has i have never really noticed.
( i use a speed instead of a crown ) and the added benefit is that I can buy barrel lenses ...
or put any sort of optic on there, it works great.
i tend to like using old and junk lenses harvested off of old folders and box cameras
and making wollaston meniscus lenses and using them on my speed. if you get a crown
it will work on anything from about a 65mm to a 15" telephoto lens..
if you enjoy the teens, twenties and 1930s aesthetic you might also look for convertible lenses.
turner reich (and others! ) made them for some of their cameras
and will give you 2 or 3 lenses in one, depending on which lens element you remove.
some people cry JUNK!! HORRIBLE OPTICS, but i have never come across one that didn't work well.

regarding processing - there are people that make daylight tanks for large format film.
look at the top of the header on this website, every once in a while there is a plane that speeds by,
that's an ad for the stermanpress sp445 daylight tank, there are also inserts you
can put in 35mm reel tanks ( MOD54 ), or you can process film the "taco" method.
there are also daylight tanks by FR that are big
and from the 40s/50s that sometimes sell on ebay cheap as dirt. they are tricky to use
( some rock them on a pencil ) and are sometime sold incomplete so be careful. usually
people process their sheet film in a opentank with hangers in a dark room, or
shuffle the sheets in an open tray. or use film rockers or a comi plan or jobo or
similar automated system. they tend to cost $$ but will save you time and effort
if you put more than your toes in the water. 3-10$/sheed adds up fast..
good luck!
john

 

[Dan Fromm]

Um, er, ah, the real advantage of a Crown Graphic over a Pacemaker Speed Graphic is that the Crown has much shorter minimum extension. 52.4 mm, Crown; 66.7, Pacemaker Speed.

I have both, 2x3, not 4x5, also a heap of lenses in barrel. Getting a Speed to be able to play with lenses in barrel is an appealing idea. In practice, though, not that important.

About Kalart rangefinders. They're a pain to calibrate, recalibration in the field when changing lenses isn't practical. The standard way of using a Kalart with a lens it isn't calibrated for is to measure subject distance with the Kalart, then use a focus scale for the lens in use to set it. Another pain. I just focus on the ground glass.

 

[Michael W]

My first 4x5 was a Crown Graphic which came with an Optar 135mm lens. Everything worked well and there was no necessity to send it out for a service. It had the side tripod mount. They are a great intro to 4x5 photography.

 

[hsandler]

I have a Crown 45. They all have a side tripod socket on the left side under the hand strap. The rangefinder is more likely than anything else to be broken or miscalibrated. I have not sent any of my old Optar or Xenar lenses out for CLA. They all seem to be OK at the middle speeds, and often I'm using X synch flash so the shutter speed isn't critical, or I'm using long exposure on B or T. For home processing of just a few sheets, I have used the "taco method" in a Patterson tank. The Spearman SP-445 looks like a good daylight tank, but I haven't used one. For scanning, the Epson V700 and up can do 4x5, but if you are on a budget, the lesser Epsons, like the V500 can be used just to get going in 4x5. You have to scan half the negative positioned over the film scanning channel, then move the negative over to scan the other half with some overlap, then stitch the two scans together using the Photoshop photomerge feature. It works very well and is absolutely seamless after stitching, but it's a bit tedious. I suppose you could also "scan" by rephotographing the negative in pieces with a DSLR and a macro lens against a lit even background, like a tablet computer, and then stitching the images together.

 

[Paul Howell]

I've been a Crown and Speed user for 50 years. The Crown is my favorite for travel, light, easy to use, rugged. My Speed came with a 127 lens, the Crown with a 135mm which I've replaced with a more modern Zeiss which has better coverage when using the front rise. In theory the lens are matched to the rangefinder, I lucked out as the Zeiss matched my Crown. The Crown uses a different lens board then the Speed, but with the ground glass you can shoot with a wide variety lens. If you hold out for a later model with interchangeable backs you can also shoot 120, most common is 6X9, but you will need to make a mask for the viewfinder. I develop in large rubber tanks, or if just a few sheets in a Unicolor film tank with a motor base. You can use trays, a set of 3 5X7 trays don't take up much room and once you get use to doing the shuffle it is quiet efficient. Over the years I have thought about a Lindhoff, maybe a Horseman, both have additional features, easy to change lens and cams, more movement and I believe rotating backs, just never had the money and the Crown works well enough.

 

[Dan Fromm]

The Crown uses a different lens board then the Speed

Not quite so. The Pacemaker Crown Graphic and Pacemaker Speed Graphic use the same stamped metal lens boards. Older Speed Graphics use wooden boards that aren't compatible with Pacemaker Graphics.

 

[Jim Jones]

Much of the best information on the Graflex press cameras is Graphic Graflex Photography by Morgan & Morgan (later, by Morgan & Lester). This was published in many editions over many years. The first edition to cover the Crown Graflex with a side rangefinder is edition 8 of 1947. Edition 11 of 1958 is the first to cover the Crown with a top rangefinder. Even the earlier editions are interesting for the articles by Ansel Adams and other early authorities. This book is well supplemented by Graflex.org as jnantz mentions in post #8. There are other press camera such as the Burke & James, the Busch (also sold as Tower), and other less frequently encountered brands. I consider the Graflex to be the best of the lot in most ways and certainly with the most extensive system of accessories, although each of the others has a few advantages. Unlike the Graflex, both the B&J and the Busch model D cameras have a rotating back, eliminating the need for a side tripod socket. Neither have the Graflok back which accepts roll film holders. Many of us develop sheet film in trays, although this does require a darkroom, or less conveniently, a suitable enclosure to enclose the film while developing. The big FR and Yankee tanks for developing take too much chemicals to be practical for most of us. They are OK for washing film.

 

[Ariston]

I have two more questions, if you guys don't mind:

Is the graflok back worth seeking out, and do you ever miss the swing movements?

 

[KN4SMF]

Graflok back is nice, and handy at times, especially with Grafmatic holders, or turning the camera into an enlarger. Things like that. As for Crowns, I'm quite sure they were made in the Graflok era--no spring backs. In a Speed, a spring back may also mean the older style focal plane shutter with a greater variety of shutter speeds, than the one in the Graflok (Pacemaker) era. As for camera movements, you'd best get it in your head this is in no way a view camera. Not even close. It was made for hand-held, and what little front rise it had was not for perspective control or anything like that. It was made for the drop-front bed with 90mm lenses.It's a tripod camera when need be, and when using lenses not synchronized to the Kalart finder.

 

[Ariston]

KN, I was looking to use a crown as a cheap and light field camera. I intended to flip the front standard around for tilt. Is there something else you would recommend as an economical introduction into the world of 4x5 field cameras? I won't be doing any architectural photography...

 

[KN4SMF]

A couple days ago some guy on here named Summicron was selling a Super Speed Graphic. I'd look ito that. If he's the same guy in Utah, he's an alright fellow. Super Graphics can be used very much like a full field camera. He said something about having fouled up the rangefinder. Getting the rangefinder out of a Super to fix it is a real chore, but it can be fixed. If I didn't already have one, I'd have bought his and fixed it and used it.

 

[mshchem]

All the Crown (and Speed) Graphics that I have seen have the "side" tripod socket cleverly hidden under the hand-strap (if it has a strap). I

Hey you're right, I've been using Crowns and Speeds since 1973, never noticed, I just always use these hand held using the rangefinder. I got rid of the Speed Graphics too heavy for me, but a brilliant durable design.

 

[Ian Grant]

I use Speed and Crown Graphics. The Speeds I tend to only use with barrel lenses and I have a pre-Anniversary and a Pacemaker but they are a bit heavier than a Crown Graphic. I keep the Crown Graphic in Turkey and use it when there and Greece.

There is a downside to Crown and Speed Pacemaker Graphics and that's the quite limited movements which can be a handicap. I was lucky and found a bargain priced Super Graphic which has better movements, enough for my work, and I now use that instead of the Crown Graphic. Both Crown and Super Graphics are easy to use hand held.

A Graffok back is useful if you want to use a roll film holder or Grafmatic as mentioned, there are roll film holder for spring backs but they are getting harder to find and can be much more expensive.

The other thing to look for is whether the Crown or Pacemaker Speed Graphic has a fresnel screen with the ground glass, Pacemakers were sold with and without a fresnel screen, the ground glass holders are machined differently to keep the focus register correct. If a fresnel screen has been removed or added to the wrong GG frame there can be focus issues.

One last but rarer word of caution, I restored a Croon Graphic for someone just before Christmas, it had the optional Graflex back, this is not an International back it's slightly wider and takes slotted film/plate holders, this type of back is used on the Graflex SLRs, luckily I had a spare spring back so was able to change it.

Ian

 

[jim10219]

I opted for the Speed Graphic because I wanted something a bit more portable than my Sinar F1, and wanted to be able to use Petzval and single meniscus lenses. The weight doesn't bother me because the weight isn't that much different, especially when you consider how much everything else weighs when shooting large format. Also, the minimum flange focal distance is fine for me, because it still allows me to shoot my widest lens (a 65mm). Lenses wider than that that cover 4x5 are too expensive for me. Mine has the spring back. I have medium format cameras for when I want to shoot 120 film (including a Busch Pressman C), so I have no practical need for a Graflock back.

If you plan to shoot medium format from time to time, then a Graflock back can be a real plus. Otherwise, the spring back is just as good. There are film holders you can use to shoot 120 film with the spring backs, but they tend to be a bit more cumbersome (like my Adapat-a-roll 620), have issues (like the Calumet C2 which can interfere with your ground glass), or be kind of expensive (like the Calumet C2N and Sinar varieties and others). They can also wear out your springs if you leave them installed too long. Still, if you plan on composing with the GG and then shooting with 120 film, those are more handy to use than the Graflock back 120 film roll holders which require you to remove the GG to install the holder. Those are best when shooting using the rangefinder or zone focus.

You can use a Fresnel with the regular GG if you install it on the outside of the GG. That's what I did with mine. I have a viewing hood that holds it in place, and since it doesn't sit in between the lens and the GG, it doesn't effect focus. And a fresnal or updated GG can be really handy on those Graflex cameras because the original GG can be pretty dim.

There are others to consider. There are many field cameras which are lighter and offer more movements than the Graflex cameras, but they are often more difficult to shoot hand held and are usually a good bit more costly. The Intrepid might be a good, cheaper alternative, but they're not as well made (though much newer so they might be in better condition). Bush made a Pressman D, which is a lot like a Crown Graphic, but they can be difficult to find the lens boards for (though not impossible). There are also technical cameras, like the Horseman HF, HD, and FA and Technika, but are usually kind of pricey. The Crown Graphic is so popular mainly because there are a lot of them out there, so they tend to be one of the cheaper options, though many are in pretty bad condition. So you'll either want to make sure you buy a good one, or be prepared to do some repair work (of which parts are generally easy to come by, which is a real plus).

 

[Jim Jones]

First time buyers of press cameras should consider that the lenses that usually came with Crown and other press cameras had little extra covering power to accommodate tilts and the rising front. These cameras often cannot be closed with lenses with more covering power.

 

[Ian Grant]

First time buyers of press cameras should consider that the lenses that usually came with Crown and other press cameras had little extra covering power to accommodate tilts and the rising front. These cameras often cannot be closed with lenses with more covering power.

There's a thread a few days ago listing many lenses some with excellent coverage that will fold up in a Crown Graphic, I've used a 150mm Sironar N, and a 135mm Symmar S (Caltart II-S) with mine, as well as a 203mm f7.7 Ektar. I know a 210mm 6.3 Osaka Commercial (Congo), 210mm Geronar, 210mm f6.1 Xenar will also fit, 90mm f6.8 WA Raptar/Optar and 90mm f6.8 Angulon, also 120mm f6.8 Angulon will fit.

The lenses with typically poor coverage ater the 135mm Tessar/Xenar and Optar/Raptar, and the 127mm Ektar which was really designed for quarter plate.

Ian

 

[Ian Grant]

You can use a Fresnel with the regular GG if you install it on the outside of the GG. That's what I did with mine. I have a viewing hood that holds it in place, and since it doesn't sit in between the lens and the GG, it doesn't effect focus. And a fresnal or updated GG can be really handy on those Graflex cameras because the original GG can be pretty dim.

There are others to consider. There are many field cameras which are lighter and offer more movements than the Graflex cameras, but they are often more difficult to shoot hand held and are usually a good bit more costly. The Intrepid might be a good, cheaper alternative, but they're not as well made (though much newer so they might be in better condition). Bush made a Pressman D, which is a lot like a Crown Graphic, but they can be difficult to find the lens boards for (though not impossible). There are also technical cameras, like the Horseman HF, HD, and FA and Technika, but are usually kind of pricey. The Crown Graphic is so popular mainly because there are a lot of them out there, so they tend to be one of the cheaper options, though many are in pretty bad condition. So you'll either want to make sure you buy a good one, or be prepared to do some repair work (of which parts are generally easy to come by, which is a real plus).

Like you I added a Fresnel to my Crown Graphic, I also added a new GG screen, overall it meant an improvement of around 2½ stops in brightness which makes focussing and composing on the screen much easier, particularly hand-held. Adding the screen on the outside of the GG you need to shim the clips that hold the screen otherwise the focus hood doesn't locate fully.

One camera you didn't mention in your list is the Toyo 45A, these were quite cheap around the time I got my Super Graphic, however prices seem to have risen substantially. This is a trend with much LF equipment especially Pacemaker Graphics.

Ian