Cross processing in '1 hour' lab

digiconvert · Sep 6, 2007

If I want to get an E-6 processed in c-41 would my local Jessops or Spielmans be happy to do it ? I can't think why not (OK the quality may not be the best but I'm just trialling it) but does anyone know of any good reason why they shouldn't. I could always play dumb and pretend I didn't know what E-6 was

TheFlyingCamera · Sep 6, 2007

If your lab is smart, they'll catch it first. The reason they won't want to do it is because it really makes a mess of their processing chemicals, and they have to do a dump-flush-and-refill on their machine. If they're about ready to do that anyway, they may be willing. If not, it will cost them an unanticipated $300 or so in chemistry alone, not to calculate other customers' film being damaged and having to eat the losses from all the other film, and the bad will it will generate for them with those folks.

jd callow · Sep 6, 2007

E6 developed in C41 does absolutely nothing to the chemicals. I worked with a lab rat who ran tests 2 or 3-times a day and after multiple racks and across multiple days crossproccessing caused no measurable changes in a replenished system. The reason they won't do the film is either ignorance or that their print machine will not be able to give a print.

Jeremy · Sep 6, 2007

According (there was a url link here which no longer exists) here on Apug (that search function sure is neat!) there should be no problem with them cross processing and the quality of their chemicals--note: I'm going with the advice of Jon Callow and Ron (Photo Engineer) and not the hearsay words of a lab tech as reported by modafoto).

Jeremy · Sep 6, 2007

hey... speak of the devil!

TheFlyingCamera · Sep 6, 2007

I must have gotten my processes bass-ackwards then. Either it's C41 in E-6 chems that glops it all up, or else they're both myths, and I stand corrected.

Bob Carnie · Sep 6, 2007

You can do E6 in C41 or you can process C41 in E6 without worry . But the statement about a competent lab technician not running unless totally sure is what I like to hear. I prefer the look C41 in E6 over the other way for what its worth. Though John Callow really knows how to make magic happen in his prints.

I first saw this cross process technique around 1989, so now is a good time to revive this, what is also very cool is to have your lab flash C41 one after the first lift in development. Beautiful

TheFlyingCamera said:
I must have gotten my processes bass-ackwards then. Either it's C41 in E-6 chems that glops it all up, or else they're both myths, and I stand corrected.

resummerfield · Sep 6, 2007

Bob Carnie said:
.....the statement about a competent lab technician not running unless totally sure is what I like to hear......

Don't count on it. I've had multiple rolls of E-6 ruined by a professional lab (no longer in business!) running it in C41 without checking.

Ria · Sep 6, 2007

I used to work for a pro lab here in Tucson and we never had any problem cross-processing either way as long as we were absolutely certain that was what the customer wanted. Whenever I wanted to cross-process E6 I would put a piece of masking tape on the film cassette on which I had written
"Process as C41".
Incidentally, if you cross-process the Ilford C41 BW in E6 chemistry, you get a monochromatic blue transparency.
Ria

jd callow · Sep 6, 2007

Crossprocessed Tmax CN is a very nice shade of grey cyan. Youhave to expose it at an EI of 25 or less.

tommy5c · Sep 6, 2007

I thought that the 2hrs of training photo tech was full of it. I have some outdated e-6 that i wanted cross processed at Wally world. the gimp behind the counter read me the riot act for even asking. told me horror stories of how the film had in the past ruined all of the chems and the other film in the processor. he said they had to tear the whole thing down and clean it. yah know when you hear a story and you know that it's BS. i think I'll try the tape over the label trick.

jd callow · Sep 6, 2007

Re spool it into a kodak gold 100 can. I once took some portra nc into a 1 hour. When I returned home there was a phone message from the lab 'tech' saying they couldn't process pro film.

Photo Engineer · Sep 6, 2007

I have cross processed E6 film and C41 film in the same Jobo drum at the same time and gotten good results. (EPP and Portra 160VC).

The E6 film will have no significant effect on the C41 process. I have no information on C41 in E6, but I have done it. It probably would have little to no effect, but it may due to the DIR couplers.

The statement that cross processing E6 in C41 chemistry causes problems is a total myth!

PE

dmr · Sep 6, 2007

It's Kodachrome, which if accidentally put through the mini-lab, which hoses up the machine. It's the rem-jet coating, IIRC.

tjaded · Sep 6, 2007

We cross process film both ways all day long, no problems with the chemistry (control strips run every 1/2 hour to 1 hour.) The only stuff that will gum up the works would be traditional B&W, Kodachrome, C-22, E-2 (3, 4) anything like that.

Photo Engineer · Sep 6, 2007

Those comments are correct.

Kodachrome rem-jet ruins the first step in any process except Kodachrome.

Any old Ektachrome before E6 or any old C22 film will mess up any modern color process. The emulsion will come off the support.

Any B&W film, if properly hardened will not mess up a modern color process, but you cannot know beforehand, so assume that any B&W film will ruin a color process.

This applies mostly to the first step. Subsequent steps might survive and filtration through a coffee filter setup would recover any solution from any problem of stripped gelatin or rem-jet.

PE

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 6, 2007

I suppose minilabs may occasionally see rolls of respooled Kodak 35mm cine stock, which also has a rem-jet backing. There used to be a couple of labs that made a business of processing it (was it type 5742?). They would send out "free" film, but you paid for the processing, and would get another "free" roll with your photos. I don't know if those operations are still around.

Toffle · Sep 6, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
Those comments are correct.

Kodachrome rem-jet ruins the first step in any process except Kodachrome.

Any old Ektachrome before E6 or any old C22 film will mess up any modern color process. The emulsion will come off the support.

PE

Feel free to bark if this is the stupidest question ever, but would that include some old Kodak Elite II 200? (expriy date 08/1998) I was just about to load some into my Nikon with the express purpose of cross processing.
I really like my lab. (they give me free stuff) I'd hate to mess things up for them. (and stop getting free stuff)

Cheers,

Photo Engineer · Sep 6, 2007

Tom;

See my process guidelines. For example, an E4 film would ruin an E6 process, but no E6 film could ruin a C41 process. It is the generation and process that counts due to the process temperature!

PE

Michael W · Sep 6, 2007

Bob Carnie said:
I first saw this cross process technique around 1989, so now is a good time to revive this, what is also very cool is to have your lab flash C41 one after the first lift in development. Beautiful

Hi Bob - I'm interested in this technique you mention. Just to clarify - I expose onto colour neg then have the lab run it through E6 in a dip & dunk machine & briefly expose it to light when the rack lifts out of the first dev?

To the original poster - you should be able to get slide film run through C41 chemistry at any lab. However as mentioned some will object to it for reasons that are invalid. Better not to use them anyway as they won't know how to get a good result. In Sydney there are a few mini labs that know what they are doing with this stuff & can get as good a result as anyone. Might be worth asking around your local labs until you find one that says they are happy to do it & can show you examples of their work.

Toffle · Sep 6, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
Tom;

See my process guidelines. For example, an E4 film would ruin an E6 process, but no E6 film could ruin a C41 process. It is the generation and process that counts due to the process temperature!

PE

Ok, Thanks PE.
Curse my eyes! I had to use a loupe to read the canister, :rolleyes: but it's definitely E-6. (funny, I can read a full orchestra score at 20 paces, but I can't read a film canister after 10 PM)

Anyway, the film is loaded, I'm ready to shoot. I'll process with confidence. (you're sure, right? Just kidding.)

Cheers,

Stephen Frizza · Sep 7, 2007

ITS A OK!

the Film that can not be cross processed is black and white film.
If it goes through a colour process it strips the film when it hits the bleach
and this can lead to chemical problems. With cross processing E-6 through the C-41 process I have heard that large amounts of this material being cross processed will cause the chemistry to drift at normal replenishment rates.
however In a pro lab environment where you may have 4 rolls of cross processing for ever 100 rolls of C-41 this issue does not occur.

there would be no valid reason for a minilab with high volumes to not offer this service.

~Steve Frizza
The Lighthouse Lab

Bob Carnie · Sep 7, 2007

Hi Goldie

The method that I used was the photographer exposed onto C41 film and then in the C41 Processor after the first lift in the developer ,I would turn on the lights for approx 1-2seconds as the film was hanging. Make sure you isolate just the film you want flashed, or there will be a bunch of pissed clients.
I guess if you were processing on a Jobo this would be possible ,*unroll the film, flash , reroll and continue process, there may have to be a water bath to dull the dev while you reroll back on the reels and then continue with the process*
I never tried the c41 in E6 flash expose thing, not sure how that would work. All the E6 labs I worked at had a dedicated Refrema tech that was so busy 16hr days two shifts, It was not possible to get on the machine.
But the technique I describe is like popping flash light on a colour polaroid or pos neg polariod, and I will not call it solarization, as Ron will give me shit, but it certainley looks cool and every frame is an adventure on roll film.

goldie said:
Hi Bob - I'm interested in this technique you mention. Just to clarify - I expose onto colour neg then have the lab run it through E6 in a dip & dunk machine & briefly expose it to light when the rack lifts out of the first dev?

To the original poster - you should be able to get slide film run through C41 chemistry at any lab. However as mentioned some will object to it for reasons that are invalid. Better not to use them anyway as they won't know how to get a good result. In Sydney there are a few mini labs that know what they are doing with this stuff & can get as good a result as anyone. Might be worth asking around your local labs until you find one that says they are happy to do it & can show you examples of their work.

dmr · Sep 7, 2007

Stephen Frizza said:
the Film that can not be cross processed is black and white film.

I just remembered this from years gone by.

Back when I was a kid we had an 8mm wind-up home movie camera, I think every family did back then. Almost all of the movie film that you got at the drug store was colo(u)r, Kodachrome 25, IIRC.

Well, I remember my brother got a couple rolls of 8mm B&W movie film. Yes, they actually made it. I think he was gonna make art films or something. --LOL--

Anyway, one of the rolls of B&W just sat and sat and sat in the camera and eventually when it was finished, whoever took it in to be processed (Dad?) didn't remember it was B&W and didn't tell them so it got processed as Kodachrome.

I remember watching it at first, and thinking that the color was really poor, then my brother breaks out laughing, remembering it was B&W film.

It was like black and white, except it was more green and white. Some of the scenes had a grey sky against foliage and they looked almost normal.

This was a good example of accidental cross processing which worked, actually. As I think back I'm glad that it didn't foul up the Kodachrome processor, and I'm amazed that it worked, more or less correct reversal exposure and all.

Oh well ...

digiconvert · Sep 7, 2007

Thanks for the replies. I use a pro lab for most of my slides but the local '1 hour' has done process only for me in the past and I was curious as to if they could do it so I can get an idea of the effect and didn't want to screw things up for them
Hope you don't mind another dumb question - if I want prints do Iuse RA 4 ? If I scan do I do it as a negative or positive film ? (told you they were dumb questions ).

Cheers ; Chris

Cross processing in '1 hour' lab

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