CROSS PROCESS KODAK 400 CN - advice needed

photoworks68 · Jul 14, 2011

Not sure if this is the right venue.

I would like to know if anyone have tried to cross process kodak 400 CN chromatic film (process as E6). And if so, what are the requirements, i.e., does the film needs to be pushed. The film was exposed at 400 ISO.

A decade ago, i use to have Ilford black and white chromatic film (I think it was the XP2 film) cross processed and it produced beautiful monochromatic slides. I remenbered pushing the film was involved, but can't exactly remember how much it was pushed.

Any input would be much appreciated

Bob Carnie · Jul 14, 2011

If memory serves me correct you will need to push (extend the development time to get great results) I managed a E6 labs in the late 80;s and this was common.
You should do a ring around, normal, under , over,
Then as the lab to clip test , Normal, push 1 , push 2 push 3 push 4.
This will cost you a bit but you will get results.
If you are processing yourself then I would use whole rolls with ring around experiments.
Very lovely results can be had,,,,, each film has its own look so first off I would get the exposure dev correct .
then move onto new films.

have fun

photoworks68 · Jul 14, 2011

thanks, will try that out.

michaelbsc · Jul 16, 2011

photoworks68 said:
thanks, will try that out.

But won't you still have the orange mask to deal with?

I think the Ilford film was clear and designed to be a B&W negative. But my understanding, perhaps completely wrong, is that the Kodak film is designed to be printed on RA-4 paper, hence the base is not clear but has the orange.

Or will that beach out in the E-6 beach?

It should be obvious by now this isn't my strength! I'm looking for information.

Diapositivo · Jul 17, 2011

michaelbsc said:
But won't you still have the orange mask to deal with?

I think the original poster means the film Kodak BW400CN, it's a panchromatic black & white film, a "chromogenic" film as they call them, to be normally developed in C-41 process to give an unmasked negative. The OP wants to cross-process it in E-6 to obtain monochromatic slides.

Bob Carnie · Jul 17, 2011

The OP should end up with an Positive, although possibly very wierd positive.
I do not think that the image will be a perfect BW positive, rather an interesting image.
The colour negative films all had different looks, all depending on exposure and development time. Once someone nailed their balance the formula was pretty predictable.
John Callow here on APUG has done as much cross processing of E6 film into negative as anyone on the planet. I am not sure how much of the neg to trans work he has done.
but hopefully he will chime in... report this post and he is sure to see it as he is one of the main cahoonas here on APUG.

michaelbsc said:
But won't you still have the orange mask to deal with?

I think the Ilford film was clear and designed to be a B&W negative. But my understanding, perhaps completely wrong, is that the Kodak film is designed to be printed on RA-4 paper, hence the base is not clear but has the orange.

Or will that beach out in the E-6 beach?

It should be obvious by now this isn't my strength! I'm looking for information.

michaelbsc · Jul 17, 2011

Diapositivo said:
I think the original poster means the film Kodak BW400CN, it's a panchromatic black & white film, a "chromogenic" film as they call them, to be normally developed in C-41 process to give an unmasked negative. The OP wants to cross-process it in E-6 to obtain monochromatic slides.

"an unmasked negative"

That's my question. I think the Kodak product is not unmasked like the Ilford product.

I may be completely wrong, but my understanding is that the Kodak film gives a monochrome negative that is designed to print well to RA-4 color paper. While the Ilford product is designed to give a dye cloud based B&W negative for use with traditional monochrome paper.

Does anyone know for sure?

I hope the OP fills us in with the results, good or bad, so we'll know. The film might be pretty interesting to play with. It's almost always hanging in CVS when I buy my occasional overpriced TriX.

MB

MattKing · Jul 17, 2011

Like Ilford XP-2, Kodak BW400CN results in a "dye cloud based" negative. The negative is also monochromatic. The difference is that the negative includes the orange mask common to most C41 colour films. This makes it easier for simple one-hour photo labs to print monochrome images on RA4 colour paper.

The mask tends to interfere with printing on to regular Black and White photo papers, but it is possible. Graded papers may work best.

Diapositivo · Jul 17, 2011

Michael, I now understand what you meant, I thought you thought the film was colour because the OP defined it as 400CN chromatic film and I myself thought for a moment it was a colour film the post was about, only to think that a colour negative, cross-processed in E-6, should give colours of some kind, so I checked the film characteristics, got it was B&W, and thought you had made the same reasoning.

michaelbsc · Jul 17, 2011

So if it is cross processed in E6 chemicals will the beach remove the orange mask?

Bob Carnie · Jul 18, 2011

Yes , all C41 films I saw the base was clean and not orange.

michaelbsc said:
So if it is cross processed in E6 chemicals will the beach remove the orange mask?

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 18, 2011

I never saw any of the Kodak C41 b&w films cross processed in E6, but the lab I used to work at sometimes cross processed Ilford XP2 in E6, and it took on a green tint somehow.
That was with Kodak chemistry in a big Refrema.

The guy processing the film wasn't too keen to do it, as he said he was worried about contamination. I haven't found any substantiated evidence that this would be the case, but when I cross process film using home kits, I always wait until the end of the kit capacity to run those rolls, just in case.

I hope that helps a little bit.

- Thomas

photoworks68 · Jul 19, 2011

Thanks for your replies.

I assume that i need to shoot with a red filter as well.

Was wondering as well if i can over expose the film, instead of having pushed (would be easier for me since i shoot in a studio).

photoworks68 · Jul 19, 2011

Thomas Bertilsson said:
I never saw any of the Kodak C41 b&w films cross processed in E6, but the lab I used to work at sometimes cross processed Ilford XP2 in E6, and it took on a green tint somehow.
That was with Kodak chemistry in a big Refrema.

The guy processing the film wasn't too keen to do it, as he said he was worried about contamination. I haven't found any substantiated evidence that this would be the case, but when I cross process film using home kits, I always wait until the end of the kit capacity to run those rolls, just in case.

I hope that helps a little bit.

- Thomas

I had some XP2 flm cross-processed a few times in the past ; the result was awsome, beautiful monochrome slides. I am thinking on renewing the experience again sometime.

Bob Carnie · Jul 19, 2011

the push development is important,

photoworks68 said:
Thanks for your replies.

I assume that i need to shoot with a red filter as well.

Was wondering as well if i can over expose the film, instead of having pushed (would be easier for me since i shoot in a studio).

photoworks68 · Mar 16, 2013

I finally got around to do more kodak 400cn film crossed processed and I really like the results. Will post some results soon.

photoworks68 · Mar 16, 2013

Here is a recent shot I took with 400 CN that was crossed process in E6. What do you guys think :

R Paul · Mar 16, 2013

that's nice---what speed did you shoot it at?

StoneNYC · Mar 17, 2013

How did you get it to be B&W?

When I did that with some Kodak 400 CN film I got a very bad green color in the scan...

Granted I did this about a year ago with a lot less skill and knowledge as now, but still...

This is the straight scan...

And this is after some finagling ...

Obviously you scanned it as B&W or converted it after? But I had a hell of a time with the orange base...

Or am I missing something?

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

photoworks68 · Mar 17, 2013

I exposed the film at 100 ISO and I ask the lab to cross process and push the film to 1 stop and a half.

Here is the raw scan from the slide :

It was just a matter of applying a black and white layer after.

photoworks68 · Mar 17, 2013

Sorry I did not write down the speed.And I cannot remember what speed I used.
I really need to start writing down all that stuff.

StoneNYC · Mar 17, 2013

photoworks68 said:
Sorry I did not write down the speed.And I cannot remember what speed I used.
I really need to start writing down all that stuff.

Me too, hmm interesting how different they are, but yours looks really good so congrats

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

CROSS PROCESS KODAK 400 CN - advice needed

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