Creative lenses for MF

I have a Mamiya RZ67 and a Canon EOS 3. The EOS 3 with its fast AF, low weight and small film format is ideally suited for fast work, whereas I consider my RZ67 superior when it comes to slow and deliberate work.

Yet, when it comes to lens and accessory selection, it appears that I can't get creative lenses for the RZ67 which are abundant for my EOS 3. I don't mean lenses like ultra wide angles or long tele lenses where the construction effort could be excessive, I talk about simple stuff:

• There is a large selection of macro bellows for small format, I know none for RZ67
• Lens babies are only available for small format (and Pentax 67 from what I've read here
• There are several makers of T&S lenses for Canon EOS, whereas the Mamiya 75mm T&S capable lens has been discontinued and replaced with a 75mm that can only shift. The short barrel lenses are hellaciously rare and expensive, even used, the T&S bellows even more so.

Did I miss something? Are there third party makers of RZ compatible equipment I don't know yet? Are regular RZ67 users so grown up and mature that they need no "funny" lenses ?

Maybe it's that medium format users don't expect one camera to do everything. If you need camera movements, then that's the time to try large format or a view camera. Or if you want a high-end medium format Lensbaby, you can make it yourself (Google "mark tucker" and "plungercam" for more info).

There are certainly macro bellows for the rz. I use the ones for the rb, they work fine with rb lenses. Med format macro is great fun.

As you mentioned, there is also a t&s gizmo that you can use with two short barrel lenses- I had the gizmo and sold it pretty quickly- not worth it. For homemade t&s the rz is less ideal than the rb because of the electronic shutter control, with the rb you can cook up all kinds of things.

6x7 format is so close to 4x5, most of us who do want serious t&s simply use 4x5. We also sometimes put the rb lenses on a 4x5 or 5x7 and get movements that way; Erie Patsellis has experimented extensively along these lines. Many of the rb/rz lenses cover 4x5 very well at moderately close focus i.e. portrait range. For high-mag macro, well you can use 35mm lenses on large format for that!

One final point that you may not know is that you can get substantial tilt effects at the enlarger. I have also experimented with bowing the paper to define in-/out-of-focus regions, it is easy.

P.S. David has it right, those who use medium format generally regard them as tools for specific tasks... they were never meant to be as versatile as a 35mm SLR. Hence in med. format we have SLRs, RFs, TLRs, view cameras...

One of the things that nudged me into the beautiful world of large format was the realisation that I could get a complete secondhand outfit for a fraction of the cost of a small or medium format tilt/shift lens. It also brought the desire for a bigger enlarger and slightly different development tanks but you could avoid all of that if you use a roll film back.
Go on... Jump

Have you looked into medium format view cameras? Horseman etc.

With respect to what keithwms said "they were never meant to be as versatile as 35mm SLR" I'll agree with that for MF SLRs, but realize all the great technical, press, panorama and view cameras that were made for MF rollfilm.

ic-racer said:

With respect to what keithwms said "they were never meant to be as versatile as 35mm SLR" I'll agree with that for MF SLRs, but realize all the great technical, press, panorama and view cameras that were made for MF rollfilm.

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Which is what I meant when I wrote...

keithwms said:

Hence in med. format we have SLRs, RFs, TLRs, view cameras...

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So the collective reasoning is essentially "why bother with a half baked T&S solution for RZ67 if one can get a much more capable view camera setup for less". Hmmm, interesting way of looking at it, thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

@keithwms: Could you elaborate on your experience with the T&S gizmo? In which way was it "worthless"? Movements too limited? To fiddly with the RZ lenses? Also, can you point me to a manufacturer of macro bellows for RZ67 ?

Creative is something that I would like the photographer to be.
When one of my lenses gets creative I send it of to repair.

Rudeofus said:

@keithwms: Could you elaborate on your experience with the T&S gizmo? In which way was it "worthless"? Movements too limited? To fiddly with the RZ lenses? Also, can you point me to a manufacturer of macro bellows for RZ67 ?

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Yes, movements are much too limited. You'd do much better even with a crown graphic, in terms of movements. And with a crown, you can shoot 4x5 or 6x7 or 612....

I wouldn't say it was fiddly, the mechanism was quite nice, but the price is an outrage for what it actually enables you to do, especially if you tack on the price of the short barrel lenses.

Here is a link for you...

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(1) If you put an rb lens plus an rb extension tube on the rz, it will work fine. You will control the speeds at the lens (the rb lenses are non-electronic).

(2) If on the other hand you want to put an rz lens on an rb tube, you can just depin the rz lens, which is very easy- you just pull two little pins on the back of the lens with a pair of pliers. I think I may have described it in a blog post. Anyway, note that you will not get electronic contact through the rb tube, so... you'll have to hand shutter (which is totally fine for most macro stuff I do).

keithwms said:

I wouldn't say it was fiddly, the mechanism was quite nice, but the price is an outrage for what it actually enables you to do, especially if you tack on the price of the short barrel lenses.

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The cost for these toys has come down, but especially the T&S bellows seems to be rare and hard to come by. And for portraits I wouldn't need these short barrel lenses, rather get a longer focal length where the extra distance doesn't hurt so much in terms of focussing.

The much harsher critique I read about Mamiyas T&S offerings is that the 75mm is too long for urban and architectural work where T&S is mostly needed. And evidently nobody makes 3. party lenses for RZ67.

keithwms said:

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I have an extension ring, but wondered about a macro bellows which allows movements but still supports native lenses (like the 140 macro). Since the image circle grows significantly as you get closer, considerable T&S should be possible at 1:1 or N:1 magnification.

@Jesper: I get your point and certainly an image doesn't get creative just because someone uses funky lenses to make them. Maybe my term "creative" was poorly chosen. What I meant was lenses where lots of consideration and a good view finder (as large as possible) are highly beneficial in order to fully unleash their potential.

I have a TS bellows for my Bronica S2a, and I think that in general any TS bellows for a medium format or 35mm SLR is more for tabletop and closeup work than for architecture, and if you look at dedicated architectural cameras (Cambo Wide DS, Silvestri, Sinar ArTec, Linhof Techno) you can see why. These are usually thin camera bodies, sometimes with only rise/fall and shift movements, designed for use with normal to wide lenses.