Creating large negatives for alternative processes

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Willie Jan

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Hi,

i want to create 8x10" negatives from 4x5 and 6/4.5 negs for alternative processes such as cyanotype and palladium.

What i understand kodak has duplication film which will do the conversion in 1 step in stead of 2 steps pos/neg. But is this still available? A second option would be to scan the neg and create a inkjet print, a third option to get ortho film and do the 2 steps.

Is there anybody who does this in his own way and would like to tell me why he is doing it this way so i can learn from it to choose my prefered method?

Thanks for your help
 

timeUnit

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If you check out www.unblinkingeye.com there are at least two articles on the subject. One involves making an interpositive (2-step process) on pan film (like T-Max) and the other involves making a reversal bleach with potassium dichromate and concentrated sulphuric acid (1-step process).

The _easy_ way, at least for cyano/vandyke/gum bichromate is to print a nice soft picture on your favorite RC paper and then contact printing it onto ortho film. I've done this for gum bichromate (a rough process, I know) with great results. But make sure that the positive image is soft, because ortho film is pretty darn contrasty even in selectol soft. I'm not sure this is a viable alternative for palladium prints though. I think the reversal bleach way is better, but much more of a hassle chemically.
 

Kerik

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The Photo Warehouse in California used to sell a direct duplicating film that got you from neg to neg in one step. It was developed in dilute dektol. I don't know if they still carry it, but it's worth checking out.
 
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Willie Jan

Willie Jan

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at the unblinking eye they make first a copy of the original, and after that create an enlarged on the ortho film.

Is this the best quality way to create an enlarged neg?

if so the second question would be which film to use to create an enlarged neg? ilford ortho copy film, adox ortho 25, maco ortho 25....
 

roy

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Willie Jan said:
second question would be which film to use to create an enlarged neg? ilford ortho copy film, adox ortho 25, maco ortho 25....

I use Bergger BPF 18, an ortho film which can be used with a red safelight for convenience. Just do test strips as though you were using paper for an enlargement.
 

donbga

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Willie Jan said:
at the unblinking eye they make first a copy of the original, and after that create an enlarged on the ortho film.

Is this the best quality way to create an enlarged neg?

if so the second question would be which film to use to create an enlarged neg? ilford ortho copy film, adox ortho 25, maco ortho 25....
You can make very high quality enlarged negatives by first creating an interpositive (I like Tri-X Pro or FP4) and then enlarging that on Freestyles APHS developed in WD2D.

There are a number of methods you can try. I think Kodak may have discontinued the direct positive film.

The ortho films are used by some folks as well.
 

Joe Lipka

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Don't forget the back room where you can ask questions on your second choice, making a digital negative. Lots of good information back there should you decide not use a traditional process for an enlarged negative.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
 

David A. Goldfarb

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www.dr5.com will also make reversal negs for alt process.
 

Aggie

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Come take my class in Montana in a month. I will be teaching this at Photographers Formulary the last week of June. There is no more Kodak film to do this, unless you are lucky enough to get it on ebay. You have several choices left. Ilford is a very good all around film, and has the heft to it, so you do not have further problems with an ultra thin (polyester base) film. The Rolls Royce of Ortho film is the Bergger film which is also the most expensive. The maco and adox film is rebranded and sold by J&C which is very good as well. I personally do not like the Freestyle APHS. I have had several batches that have had real problems. The first had scratches on the film, the second had these weird marks that when I used Ilford where not there, while trying to enlarge the same negative. It is also the thinnest polyester base, and more dificult to hang onto when processing. Once you get a work flow going with it, and you get a good batch, it is a nice film. It is also by far the cheapest film to purchase.

As for the single shot neg to neg film I don't like them. I have found that I can do some manipulating of the orginal negative to get it to what I want. With the interpositive, I have the ability to check it out and se how it looks on a light table if I need to do further manipulation. With the one shot film, you takes what you gets!

The articles are good, but with all articles on this subject, they do not teach the little nuances of what to look for. That is the biggest key to a successful enlarged negative. Not one talks about how to fix a problem negative. Not one talks about what cnstitues a good negative for enlarging in the first place. If you don't have the right kind of negative, the results no matter what you do will be crap. It doesn't have to be perfect to start with, but it has several variables that you need, like highlights not blown out on the negative, and the the absence of good seperation of tones. If you don't like grain, remember how large you want to go and what you start with. As you increase in size, so does the grain. Also how do you acheive the bas fog the best. Why fog? You need a flat interpositive, not a good contrast one. The final negative needs more contrast, but how much more? How do you go from a flat interpositive to a final contrasty neg? These are all things the articles fail to mention adequately.
 

Aggie

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Willie Jan said:
To bad i am almost at the other side of the globe Aggie....

Within the next couple of years I will be over there. In fact if you know of a darkroom facility, I could teach a class over in your area.
 

mark

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Honestly, since you cannot get to Aggie's workshop, the easiest way would be digital. I used a lot of the Kodak stuff in the past it was great and easy.
 
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