Craft

jnamia · Apr 24, 2022

I was told by a teacher that a cyanotype printed on a piece of birch bark was a bit crafty, IDK I never thought about it, I just cleaned off the dried bark I found on the ground, painted cyanotype chemistry on it and printed on it. I know people always talks bout photography being a craft but I never understood why or how it could be a craft. Im not sure what the difference between art and craft are other than someone (either the person who made it or someone who is smarter than them and sees money) says it is art. I was never sure why photography was ever called a craft, it never seems crafty...
I have made baskets and stools before and woven them and that was "a craft" I've also painted by numbers before and was told that wasn't painting ... I painted with a brush, so I'm not really sure what the deal is ..rob ross and Thomas kinkade haven't called real painters either ..

can someone explain it to me?

juan · Apr 24, 2022

I always thought of craft - in photography, news reporting, trombone playing - to be following a consistent methodology which would lead to good results. Not necessarily creative but consistently good. I guess your instructor used craft in the sense of crafts in a craft show.

gone · Apr 24, 2022

Yes, it does have a lot of meanings, it mostly depends on which art discipline. In my mind, the one big thing that separates the two is permanency. Artists, good photographers, etc insist on permanency in their work, while craft people don't. It's one of reasons for the huge disparities in sale prices between the two, along w/ other important differences.

If someone isn't selling or showing the stuff it doesn't matter. I shared a studio in Albuquerque w/ several artists, and one portrait painter was sued by a buyer when the work started falling apart. Gotta use good materials.

You could also say that craft people usually show at Saturday markets, traveling exhibits, out of their home and the like, whereas artists usually show out of their studio or a gallery. There is sometimes no difference between the works though other than prices. Pottery is sometimes seen as a craft, but it depends on who is doing it. A well made anything is art, but being archival is a very important quality.

faberryman · Apr 25, 2022

Everyone wash your prints thoroughly.

TheFlyingCamera · Apr 25, 2022

I think there's a huge gray area with massive overlap a la Venn diagram between Art with a capital A and Craft. Part of the challenge in determining the difference if there is one is that all Art requires Craft in order to produce it (this is not judging the level of Craft involved, just that there is some measure and means of production of the art). One can produce Art with a high level of Craft, and one can produce it with a minimal level of Craft. I suspect that in the context of the comment about your cyanotype on wood being "Crafty" it was A: a backhanded compliment at best, a put-down at worst, implying that your work was popular/vernacular and not "high art", and B: making a distinction between styling of popular/vernacular and "high art" photography in that Crafty stuff is very materials-focused, perhaps "object as photograph" in contrast to "photograph as object" where certain tropes of photographic display are expected- image on white/off-white paper, presented with precise borders, ideally matted and/or drymounted. Because your image didn't conform to those expectations, it was Crafty.

Cholentpot · Apr 25, 2022

'outside art'

'craft'

It's all snobbery in my view. Then again, I have no formal training and I'm sure a professional artist would be able to tell. Good thing I don't really deal with the professional art community and I can be happy with my work when I desire.

VinceInMT · Apr 25, 2022

Historically, certain mediums were held to be “craft,” particularly those used by women, such as the use of textiles. In the early 20th-century there was a push to combine arts and crafts, notably due to the influence of the Bauhaus.

Pretty much by definition, all making is craft. The output may, or may not, rise to the level of art.

grain elevator · Apr 25, 2022

Really, another thread about what art is? Ok I like it. To me, a good working definition is that art is good for nothing, it doesn't try to serve any purpose, it's not made to anyone's demand or needs. A craft is something that requires a certain skill level to make. They're not mutually exclusive.

Bill Burk · Apr 25, 2022

I just like fixing things and something always needs fixing on cameras. You say yours is fine? Let me get some lens tissue and see if I can clean that streak off the lens.

Cholentpot · Apr 25, 2022

grain elevator said:
Really, another thread about what art is? Ok I like it. To me, a good working definition is that art is good for nothing, it doesn't try to serve any purpose, it's not made to anyone's demand or needs. A craft is something that requires a certain skill level to make. They're not mutually exclusive.

Artisan vs Craftsman?

greg zinselmeier · Apr 25, 2022

It’s like defining apples, then defining pears, then cross breading then (GMO). Then argueing about the offspring.!!! Which one is more like . . .

Reject definition!! Feel the moment and live. And don’t ask for validation. Just be.

It’s gonna be okay man!!!

Cholentpot · Apr 25, 2022

greg zinselmeier said:
It’s like defining apples, then defining pears, then cross breading then (GMO). Then argueing about the offspring.!!! Which one is more like . . .

Reject definition!! Feel the moment and live. And don’t ask for validation. Just be.

It’s gonna be okay man!!!

This is the way...

jnamia · Apr 25, 2022

grain elevator said:
Really, another thread about what art is?

No, it's not about what is art but what is craft but that's OK, I don't know what art is either ... I've added my 4¢ about that subject but
not to many people's liking ...I just didn't get the whole "crafty", I mean I hear people who create photographs
talking about their craft.. but calling a photograph made with natural materials crafty I still don't really get it .. kinda makes me think
of all of photography differently I guess, but I still don't know because a photograph isn't just an "idea" it's more than that, it's something...., I guess ... or it isn't ..

greg zinselmeier · Apr 25, 2022

This might be the right place to ask, but is jnamia not jnanian? Doppelgänger? N no . . . Too close to call! I’m assuming 2 different people??? Yes!! Confirm or deny

KerrKid · Apr 25, 2022

At least you didn’t use leaves or grass clippings.

grain elevator · Apr 26, 2022

jnamia said:
No, it's not about what is art but what is craft but that's OK, I don't know what art is either ... I've added my 4¢ about that subject but
not to many people's liking ...I just didn't get the whole "crafty", I mean I hear people who create photographs
talking about their craft.. but calling a photograph made with natural materials crafty I still don't really get it .. kinda makes me think
of all of photography differently I guess, but I still don't know because a photograph isn't just an "idea" it's more than that, it's something...., I guess ... or it isn't ..

Ok, but a topic which requires a definition of art.
Anyway "crafty" does sound belittling, sort of like "oh how creative". Or shows that someone was really looking hard for a compliment but had nothing of substance to say about the work in question. Or is indeed expressing confusion why the material was chosen. I understand why you feel a need to discuss it.

Don_ih · Apr 26, 2022

Crafts apply technique and skill primarily toward generating a useful object (something with a purpose) - a basket, a quilt, a pot. These things are often embellished in artistic ways (decoration, for instance, or a change in design that is done to make the object look a certain way but doesn't change the functionality of the object). Crafted objects are normally not of a unique type even though they may have unique artistic embellishments.
The difference between "arts" and "crafts" is vague at best. A bit like the difference between the Morning Star and Venus. "Arts" may be considered more inventive than "crafts", which tend to follow patterns and methods without deviation. Neither of these are what people mean when they say "art", though, which is retained for "expression through a medium". The practical skills, methods, techniques, however, are pretty much the same throughout.

greg zinselmeier · Apr 26, 2022

IMO craft is perpetuated by "what works historically" a tradition based on repeatability at the core. A woodworker will use Mortise and tenon as joinery because it has shown over time it is an excellent method to joint/mate two pieces of wood together.The woodworker can hone his craft to optimize skill set in such a practice. However, conceptually speaking, no change from the past. woodworking books tend to stress excellent technique/ best shop practices that have gathered from tradition.

Art is perpetuated by "what's new" a tradition of change. A portrait by Modigliani, is quit different than a portrait by Diane Arbus. both conceptually and physically. Art books( pedagogy) tends to point out change.

when it comes to paint by numbers a rather new comer to art/craft debate. It will have a duality of meaning that works in the public sphere. one could argue, that paint by numbers, is an excellent introductory method to allow people with no confidence or no understanding of "how to paint" to engage. This idea predates, either choosing technique/tradition or choosing art as idea/change.

one could also argue that Paint by numbers is the "change", therefor it is art. Art for the masses ( as opposed to singular genius) , or art that is Ironic ( lack of required technique, historically speaking, new technique is/was a "marker" for excellent artist. etc. .. . .. . . propositions abound. . .. . one could be at art school writing a 100 page thesis on such meditations.

jnamia · Apr 26, 2022

grain elevator said:
Ok, but a topic which requires a definition of art.
Anyway "crafty" does sound belittling, sort of like "oh how creative". Or shows that someone was really looking hard for a compliment but had nothing of substance to say about the work in question. Or is indeed expressing confusion why the material was chosen. I understand why you feel a need to discuss it.

not sure if it was belittling , but I guess it didn't really go along with the rest of the body of work I was creating. maybe that's what he meant. The rest of the images were not printed on found once living materials but on glass and paper. I got the gist of what he was talking about but still it's kind of funny over year later I still think about it. maybe I'll make a book using birch pages with images on it for a project and it will be as much art as it is craft. I would have to figure out a way to present it, maybe in a box hollowed out of a fallen tree .. I'll have to find some lac bugs to stave off decay ..

Craft

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