coverage of Leitz M lenses

dpurdy · Feb 13, 2009

I have just discovered that I can get an adapter for my Pentax 67 to make it take M series lenses. That is a very intriguing idea and I wonder if I would get a full circle of image on the 120 film or just what I would get. Anyone ever checked out the circle of light from an M series lens to see how large it is?

Thanks
Dennis

Ian Grant · Feb 13, 2009

Well as the register of the two lens mounts to film plane is very different that's going to impose huge restrictions, certainly no Infinity focus, except some of the M series lenses split & the lens part (minus focus helical) could be fitted in bellows. Any adapter is probably for Leitz macro lenses, and at one time they did make lenses that covered larger formats.

Ian

Lee L · Feb 13, 2009

Ian Grant said:
Well as the register of the two lens mounts to film plane is very different ...

Ian

27.95 mm for M-mount, and I believe 85 mm for the Pentax 67. As the lenses will be pushed so far out, they'll have greater than the infinity designed coverage, but I'm sure it will greatly vary by lens.

I have the capacity to put LTM mount lenses on my view cameras, so could set up similar circumstances there, but not so well with M lenses. I haven't really tried this yet, so have nothing to report from experience.

A quick test: 50mm Summitar has an image circle of about 106 mm and focuses at about 110 mm when the flange is about 85 mm from the ground glass.

a 75mm C/V Color Heliar has about a 104 mm image circle focused at just over 200 mm when the flange is 85 mm from the film.

So it looks like both these lenses would cover your film. You can do the math to get reproduction ratios.

Then there's the question of the close-up performance of any given lens you might try.

Lee

dpurdy · Feb 13, 2009

http://cgi.ebay.com/For-Leica-Leitz...286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:10|39:1|240:1318

That is what I was looking at and I see you are right in that the lens would be much farther from the film plane.
Thanks
Dennis

Lee L · Feb 13, 2009

That adapter is for Visoflex lenses, which have a different flange-to-film standard. There were not a lot of options for Visoflex lenses, and you'd have to find one of those for infinity focus to work. I recall 65mm, 90mm, 135mm, 200mm, and longer lenses designed for Visoflex that should work with this adapter. The item for sale is also apparently a LTM 39mm threaded mount, not a Leica M bayonet mount.

Lee

2F/2F · Feb 13, 2009

Hi, Dennis.

First off, it looks like that adapter on E-Bay is for LTM lenses (AKA M39), not M glass.

Then, it is made for Visoflex lenses. These lenses mount to a thick prism housing that attaches to the front of the rangefinder body, making it into an SLR. Thus, infinity focusing is possible on the 67 (or so they claim) because the Visoflex lenses are designed to be mounted significantly farther from the film than a regular LTM lens. If you mount a plain-ol' LTM lens, you will get close focusing only, and will have to do 98% of the focusing by moving the camera body forward and backward in relation to the subject, since the LTM lenses move forward and backward so little to focus. As for image circles, I don't know what they are. I'll be you could get some fun effects, though!

nemo999 · Feb 13, 2009

dpurdy said:
I have just discovered that I can get an adapter for my Pentax 67 to make it take M series lenses. That is a very intriguing idea and I wonder if I would get a full circle of image on the 120 film or just what I would get. Anyone ever checked out the circle of light from an M series lens to see how large it is?

Thanks
Dennis

Are you absolutely sure it's not Pentax 67 lenses to Leica M body (which would also include the Visoflex II and III housings? As a general rule, 35 mm lenses will cover 6x7cm at 1:1 macro or larger, not infinity. Exceptions include the 135mm Hektor, which will cover 9x12cm, probably 4x5" as well.

dpurdy · Feb 13, 2009

Ouch. I can't hide my ignorance. Sorry for my mistakes. I've never heard of Visoflex lenses. I guess I better do a bit more research.
thanks again
Dennis

Lee L · Feb 13, 2009

dpurdy said:
Ouch. I can't hide my ignorance. Sorry for my mistakes. I've never heard of Visoflex lenses. I guess I better do a bit more research.
thanks again
Dennis

Don't apologize. We all know more now than when we woke up this morning. That's usually a good thing. And I now have some known options to try for macro work with roll film backs (or sheet film with greater extension).

http://elshaw.tripod.com/Visoflex/Visoflex.html

Lee

nemo999 · Feb 13, 2009

I've learned something, too - there is a Visoflex lens (39mm screw thread) to 67 body adapter:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/For-Leica-Lei...1229|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318#ShippingPayment
Not sure how anyone would use it! At infinity, a Leica lens would probably give a circular image of 50 mm or so. There was a 65mm Elmar lens for the Visoflex which focused from infinity to 1:1, the mark 1 (which I have) is usually reckoned as being not quite as sharp at close distances as the mark II. If I was going to put any 35mm lens on a Pentax 67, I think I'd make it a 55mm Micro-Nikkor, one of the truly great macro lenses.

Ian Grant · Feb 14, 2009

Actually what was confusing Dennis was the missing bits

Leica screw thread lenses are M39, whereas Leica M lenses are bayonet. Either way some Leica lenses split to fit a Visoflex. The adapter in question is most likely for attaching an M39 lens to a Pentax 67 bellows for macro work, rather than direct to a camera body.

Ian

Nicholas Lindan · Feb 14, 2009

The old 135 Hektor (and 90mm Elmar?) will cover 6x7. The head of the lens unscrews. These aren't telephoto lenses just long focus. I have heard the performance of the Hektor with 4x5 is very good.

Ian Grant · Feb 14, 2009

There were also some early Leitz lenses designed for larger formats (than 35mm). Ole would probably be able to give more details.

Ian

John Koehrer · Feb 14, 2009

None of the Visoflexes took M mount lenses directly and focused to infinity.
There are a variety of adapters that go between the lens head and the front of the Viso. The most useful was the focusing adapter #16464 used in addition to a sizing adapter for each lens head(L&dia)

Ian Grant · Feb 14, 2009

A few M mount lenses split to fit the Visoflex. I think my Summicron does but I'm a Continent away from it

Ian

John Koehrer · Feb 15, 2009

Ian,
The Summicron was too short to focus with the Viso although the head separates for use with something like a "SOOKY"(?) not sure of the # though.
Gotta love those old catalog numbers!

Ian Grant · Feb 15, 2009

For macro work the 50mm Summicron isn't focussed at Infinity

My Leica books are in the UK but doing a quick search confirms what I remember, Stephen Gandy says of the DR 50mm Summicron "For Visoflex fans, the focusing head of the DR will unscrew for bellows close up work."

Ian

coverage of Leitz M lenses

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