well, found one for 156 US: http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=988185&cm_re=HP-_-PZ-_-MF3+Ricoh+GelSprinter
seems reasonable. I guess the first tests could be done with a bottle of liquid light then move on to custom emulsions..
From the above link: "Technology: Piezo Inkjet System".
Hmmm. I dunno Sean. I'm no expert in printing technology, but I beleive the fundamental mechanism involved with any "dry" printing process is using a small electric charge difference between the medium and the paper to deposit the medium. "Piezo" to me implies this because typically this means "piezo-electric". At least it has in the past. The process works because there is a pigment of some sort in the printing medium. The pigment particles carry the elecrostatic charge that enables the transfer to the paper.
I don't know if the silver halogen particles in the emulsion would make the transfer. There is no pigment in the emulsion. I could be totally out to lunch with this line of thinking, so someone more knowledgeable needs to step in here with their expertise.
Also, the inkjet medium is not photosensitive. A method needs to be devised to keep the sensitised paper in the dark. It may be relatively simple but requires some hardware. Take a look at an 8x10 Polaroid processor. It has a light-tight developer tray where the paper rests while developing.
Maybe, maybe not. The US military had mobile processing labs that could be deployed to remote locations well before the 1-Hour labs came on the scene. Also, if you see my threads on the SR-71 camera systems, it is quite evident that many thousand feet of film had to be processed rapidly following one of those surveillance missions (I suspect the same need existed for the U2 flights also). Those processing systems were certainly tied to Kodak in a direct or indirect manner. In fact, the film was flown directly to Rochester for processing in the early days of the program. I suspect that the security requirements prohibited Kodak from placing the technology on the consumer market. This type of arrangement is very typical. The Japanese were free to develop and market the technology on their own without such a restriction.
As another example in a different field, we now have earphones, radios, CD players, ect. that cancel out the ambient noise from the surroundings. This noise cancellation technology came out of US/UK submarine sonar systems. Twenty to thirty years ago, it was highly classified.
Back in the 1960s there was at least one "minilab" orbiting the moon! It was Russian, I think, but I'd be surprised if both superpowers didn't have something similar in operation. There are pictures showing how it operated, I don't have the URL handy but a web search would probably turn it up if anyone cared.
The machine used a long roll of film, which was exposed, processed, scanned, and then spooled. The scanned image (a continuous "fax-scan" type system) was transmitted back to earth.
Ben, I said that the machine coating would make 4x5, 120, and 35mm. Sorry if that was unclear but implied in it was the fact that it made a maximum of 5" wide coating for 4x5. Thier is no image.
That machine will coat at about 100 feet / min max and is about a 2 car garage in size not including the air conditioners. It probably costs close to $1M and can be run by two people.
PE
Include the purchase or lease of the land, and a tangled web of permits and licenses. These of course vary with each State and locale, but you have all the EPA permits for chemicals, some sort of certification/permit/license for all of your effluent waste (solid and liquid), fire protection certification, probably some kind of chemical facility operating permit/license, all of the various forms of insurance, construction permits for the facility and certification of it when complete; OSHA compliance program for industrial safety (especially chemical hazards but it even gets down to the storage shelves and ladders).You have forgotten building the plant, doing the development work and the fact that there are other people involved such as emulsion makers, chemists, packaging people, and ETC.
Now, how does this look amortized considering the loans and the interest?
You oversimplify!
PE
Roger;
I cannot disagree with anything you said. What I was pointing out was in response to another post who said that there were many Kodak managers from outside the company, but there were not. I didn't say Fisher (or whatever way it is spelled) was great, or good. He was good at Motorola and he did bring in good ideas to Kodak. But then Carp, from inside Kodak was not very good.
He was a marketing person selected over Carl Kohrt who came up through Research and many thought that this selection was very bad for Kodak, as they needed technical guidance and an overhaul of marketing. Instead they got an overhaul of research and marketing forged ahead to become what we see today. The company, in the eyes of many, was weakened by this choice.
OTOH, others disagree with that position and think Carp was a fine person for the time and that he fixed marketing and research both. Myself, I'm middle of the road.
You have forgotten building the plant, doing the development work and the fact that there are other people involved such as emulsion makers, chemists, packaging people, and ETC.
The hot and cold water, air conditioning, conditioned storage, packaging materials and other things must be put into this. Your calculations are WAY out of line.
The whole thing, from scratch would run about $2 M and take about 2 years to finish before it began running good product. During that time you are paying for staff, chemcials, facilities, utilities, and reclamation of waste among other things. That is another $100,000 / person in salaries alone (average) and you will need more than the 2 to run the machine.
Lets assume 10 people for 2 years. Lets assume $100,000 taxes for 2 years and about $1 M for chemcial supplies and waste disposal - all of this up front to get started.
Now, how does this look amortized considering the loans and the interest?
You oversimplify!
PE
Oh, I forgot, you said 24/7. Add in the "B" and "C" shifts to this as well as extra utilities, extra pay on sundays, and other things I've fogotten. That will add in at least 4 - 8 people as support staff for that type of operation. Remember, I said 2 people could run the machine.
Who makes the emulsion, tests it, finishes it, sensitzes it and preps it for these coaters. That is support staff to keep the machine fed.
PE
Well, now let me throw another wrinkle into this speculation about the costing of starting a film factory.
What about the existing Ferrania plant in Oklahoma? I assume they are still making color neg film there for disposable cameras, but...I'll bet one could purchase that facility, and it just might be cheaper than starting from scratch. Isn't Ferrania operating in Bankruptcy? If it will coat color film, it will surely coat b/w film.
Include the purchase or lease of the land, and a tangled web of permits and licenses. These of course vary with each State and locale, but you have all the EPA permits for chemicals, some sort of certification/permit/license for all of your effluent waste (solid and liquid), fire protection certification, probably some kind of chemical facility operating permit/license, all of the various forms of insurance, construction permits for the facility and certification of it when complete; OSHA compliance program for industrial safety (especially chemical hazards but it even gets down to the storage shelves and ladders).
And then there is all the consulting fees that you will pay people to guide you through all of the above. Its a necessary evil because all that massive amount of regulations is beyond what one person can learn in an entire career. Far gone are the days of simply throwing up a building and starting to work.
Is it any wonder that business moves overseas?
BTW, I have never heard of this other 'engineer' you speak of. I've never run across his/her posts either. I have run across some people who think they know photographic engineering but do not, and I know some who are photo engineers who post here and on PN regularly. I know many of the engineers personally or am in touch with them via e-mail or PMs.
Thanks.
His list of buildings to be demolished is both right and wrong. Kodak is eliminating the oldest buildings and certainly 69 is not one of them. Building 59 still stands, but 2 is gone. It was one of the oldest.
Just FYI, he had a lot of things wrong there in the coupler post. I looked there first. Firstoff, it was 236MD not 136MD, but the 114BR was a correct number.
He had some names wrong and some right. BTW, I had a window in my office and didn't win any political office or run in any election and my boss had 2 windows in a corner office, but that is beside the point. One of my temps also had a window. It is what is vacant at the time.
I recognized some of the posters and some of the names very well, and know most of those people personally. They are not as described. They certainly don't deserve the comments made of them and are quite respected engineers.
That was a lot of vitriol there.
There is good and bad in every company. I found Kodak to be ethical and concerned with the environment, starting their programs years before anyone else. I find that the information seems biased by anger.
Too bad.
PE
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